Firing pin reset

stefanosg · 06-03-2007, 05:10 PM

I am not sure I worded the subject line properly, but here goes. I have a shooter that will fire one round, eject the spent cartridge and load a fresh one. It does not set the firing pin. My guess is that the toggle is not going far enough back to do this. I was shooting 124g RN with 3.8g of Bullseye. I also had a hotter 4.3g with me and the results were the same. Am I correct in my assumption? Is there a particular spring I should look to replace?

sambuscemi · 06-03-2007, 10:07 PM

Stefanosg: I had this very same problem with one of my lugers. It involves the relationship between the sear bar and the firing pin lug. What is happening after firing when the toggle assy. moves back and the sear returns to its original unfired position it is not set far enough in or down to catch the firing pin lug as it is returned as the toggle assy returns forward or the firing pin lug or the sear bar have rounded edges on them and do not catch properly after firing. The first thing you should do is change the firing pin to see if that solves the problem. If not, return the original firing pin and swap out the sear bar and if that still does not work try switiching both. Then if all else fails a small round file used to remove a very small amount of metal (thousandths of an inch - very very small) from the original sear bar u-shaped slot will put the sear bar deeper into the frame almost insuring it will catch the origianl firing pin upon return after firing. Just so you know the opposite condition that exists is when you pull the trigger and the sear does not release the firing pin for firing then material must be removed from the firing pin lug in order for it to disconnect itself from the sear to fire the gun. I hope this explanation helps, it is just a few of the solutions that may help you. SAM Buscemi

Dwight Gruber · 06-04-2007, 03:59 AM

Steven,

The Luger firing pin engages the sear bar in about the last 1/4 inch of travel, so if the fired case is ejected length of travel is definitely not the problem.

The first thing that you should be aware of is that a firing pin which does not **** on breechblock return leaves the firing pin tip outside the face of the breechblock, which can lead to slam-fire and full-auto function.

The fact that this has not occurred may be diagnostic.

Does it consistently **** when you operate the action by hand? When the second shot fails to fire, can you re-**** it by hand?

With an empty chamber, observe the action of the sear bar as you pull the trigger. Does it move freely in the receiver extension, or does the sear spring return it to its rest position slowly or not at all?

The first action I would suggest is to remove the firing pin and thoroughly clean the firing pin cavityin the breechblock; the firing pin itself; the firing pin interior; and the firing pin spring and retainer. Examine the firing pin to see if the pin tip might be broken. When you reassemble it make sure that the firing pin moves freely inside the breechblock.

Remove the sear bar from the receiver extension and clean the receiver cut where it resides; the sear bar itself; and the disconnector plunger and spring. Check for free movement.

After you have done these things, take the gun out and shoot it. If the problem persists there may be other things to consider.

Do all the numbers on this Luger match, or is this a parts gun? More particularly, do the numbers of the breechblock, firing pin, sear bar, and receiver all match? If not, this in itself could lead to problems.

Sam is correcting in suggesting parts replacement; if parts are mismatched, or if they are worn, there is nothing lost by the attempt and it might solve the problem.

I'd suggest great caution before making the decision to file parts--the odds are in favor of your causing yourself more problems than less.

--Dwight

stefanosg · 06-04-2007, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwight Gruber
Does it consistently **** when you operate the action by hand? When the second shot fails to fire, can you re-**** it by hand?

Yes. I can **** the action by hand and the gun will then fire. It is a parts gun, so I will look into the parts, swapping and so forth.

Thanks

Lugerdoc · 06-04-2007, 09:23 AM

Stefano, The above info is fine if you are sure that your FP is not cocking after the first shot. More likely it IS cocked, but the plunger (disconnector) in your trigger bar, is not pushing under the the trigger lever in the side plate, to allow you to release the FP when the trigger is pulled. TH

stefanosg · 06-04-2007, 07:38 PM

Upon closer inspection, the entire upper assembly is matching. Its the sideplate and everything south that is mixed. It does set the firing pin in the first 1/4in of travel and when I press the the trigger bar with my finger, it fires the gun. Could it be the sideplate or the trigger? I do notice that it is extremely difficult to open and close the takedown lever.

Lugerdoc · 06-05-2007, 08:24 AM

Stefano, sounds like your need a "trigger job". TH

apis mellifera · 06-08-2007, 08:49 AM

I had the same problem. A slight bevel to the plunger and it works a treat now.

stefanosg · 06-09-2007, 06:24 AM

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I hope to get out this weekend and figure her out.

jkirkthomas · 06-09-2007, 01:09 PM

I've just experienced the exact same problem. Looking very closely at what's happening, I see that it's not that the firing pin isn't latching. It's the little elbow-shaped gizmo (what is that thing called?) on the inside of the side plate, the one the trigger moves to actuate the trigger bar, that isn't getting back to the right place. At least that's the problem on mine.

After firing, when the new round is chambered and everything stops moving, the little spring loaded pin on the trigger bar is bearing against the upper end of that elbow. When you relax your grip on the trigger to fire again, the trigger should go all the way forward, allowing the elbow to return to its pre-firing position, and the pin on the trigger bar is supposed to slip beneath the upper end of the elbow, so when you pull the trigger again, it actuates the trigger bar and releases the firing pin.

What's happening on mine is that the pin on the trigger bar doesn't slide under, but holds the elbow in place, not allowing it to return to the pre-firing position, and I can see that the trigger has not returned all the way forward. If I push the trigger forward, I can hear a little "click," and that's the pin popping back in place. Now I can pull the trigger and it fires again.

I didn't figure all this out on my own, but had help from the forum. The first sticky on here was begun by someone who had the same problem, and "Hugh" came back with a fix, complete with photos of the relevant parts. Check that out and I bet you can solve your problem.

good luck,
Kirk

stefanosg · 06-10-2007, 09:32 PM

I was had some suspisions about my sideplate. I'll check it out. Thanks

Alx · 06-17-2007, 04:19 PM

I believe this is cured best by using a different lever, the L -shaped trigger lever with a hole in the middle. It's upper bearing face has to get away from the sear bar plunger when the trigger is relaxed to return forward, and is forced away by the lower bearing surface on the trigger itself, pushing the lever up and thus away, but the angle of the lever is too closed to let it back away sufficiently to clear the plunger disconnect. Often a minutely wider angle on this part lets the lever back away enough, on trigger return, without messing up the pulling trigger action.

stefanosg · 06-17-2007, 05:56 PM

I think the trigger lever on mine was hanging up. I cleaning and lubricatde the area a little bit and reinstalled the sideplate, she shoots great now. The only other thing I can possibly think of is that the sideplate was not seated right and I corrected the problem when I reistalled it.

06-03-2007, 05:10 PM	#1
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Firing pin reset I am not sure I worded the subject line properly, but here goes. I have a shooter that will fire one round, eject the spent cartridge and load a fresh one. It does not set the firing pin. My guess is that the toggle is not going far enough back to do this. I was shooting 124g RN with 3.8g of Bullseye. I also had a hotter 4.3g with me and the results were the same. Am I correct in my assumption? Is there a particular spring I should look to replace? __________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

06-04-2007, 09:23 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Stefano, The above info is fine if you are sure that your FP is not cocking after the first shot. More likely it IS cocked, but the plunger (disconnector) in your trigger bar, is not pushing under the the trigger lever in the side plate, to allow you to release the FP when the trigger is pulled. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-04-2007, 07:38 PM	#6
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Upon closer inspection, the entire upper assembly is matching. Its the sideplate and everything south that is mixed. It does set the firing pin in the first 1/4in of travel and when I press the the trigger bar with my finger, it fires the gun. Could it be the sideplate or the trigger? I do notice that it is extremely difficult to open and close the takedown lever. __________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

06-05-2007, 08:24 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Stefano, sounds like your need a "trigger job". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-09-2007, 06:24 AM	#9
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for all the helpful replies. I hope to get out this weekend and figure her out. __________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

06-03-2007, 10:07 PM	#2
sambuscemi User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 192 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 4 Posts	Stefanosg: I had this very same problem with one of my lugers. It involves the relationship between the sear bar and the firing pin lug. What is happening after firing when the toggle assy. moves back and the sear returns to its original unfired position it is not set far enough in or down to catch the firing pin lug as it is returned as the toggle assy returns forward or the firing pin lug or the sear bar have rounded edges on them and do not catch properly after firing. The first thing you should do is change the firing pin to see if that solves the problem. If not, return the original firing pin and swap out the sear bar and if that still does not work try switiching both. Then if all else fails a small round file used to remove a very small amount of metal (thousandths of an inch - very very small) from the original sear bar u-shaped slot will put the sear bar deeper into the frame almost insuring it will catch the origianl firing pin upon return after firing. Just so you know the opposite condition that exists is when you pull the trigger and the sear does not release the firing pin for firing then material must be removed from the firing pin lug in order for it to disconnect itself from the sear to fire the gun. I hope this explanation helps, it is just a few of the solutions that may help you. SAM Buscemi

06-04-2007, 03:59 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Steven, The Luger firing pin engages the sear bar in about the last 1/4 inch of travel, so if the fired case is ejected length of travel is definitely not the problem. The first thing that you should be aware of is that a firing pin which does not ** on breechblock return leaves the firing pin tip outside the face of the breechblock, which can lead to slam-fire and full-auto function. The fact that this has not occurred may be diagnostic. Does it consistently when you operate the action by hand? When the second shot fails to fire, can you re-** it by hand? With an empty chamber, observe the action of the sear bar as you pull the trigger. Does it move freely in the receiver extension, or does the sear spring return it to its rest position slowly or not at all? The first action I would suggest is to remove the firing pin and thoroughly clean the firing pin cavityin the breechblock; the firing pin itself; the firing pin interior; and the firing pin spring and retainer. Examine the firing pin to see if the pin tip might be broken. When you reassemble it make sure that the firing pin moves freely inside the breechblock. Remove the sear bar from the receiver extension and clean the receiver cut where it resides; the sear bar itself; and the disconnector plunger and spring. Check for free movement. After you have done these things, take the gun out and shoot it. If the problem persists there may be other things to consider. Do all the numbers on this Luger match, or is this a parts gun? More particularly, do the numbers of the breechblock, firing pin, sear bar, and receiver all match? If not, this in itself could lead to problems. Sam is correcting in suggesting parts replacement; if parts are mismatched, or if they are worn, there is nothing lost by the attempt and it might solve the problem. I'd suggest great caution before making the decision to file parts--the odds are in favor of your causing yourself more problems than less. --Dwight

06-08-2007, 08:49 AM	#8
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	I had the same problem. A slight bevel to the plunger and it works a treat now.

06-09-2007, 01:09 PM	#10
jkirkthomas User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NC Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've just experienced the exact same problem. Looking very closely at what's happening, I see that it's not that the firing pin isn't latching. It's the little elbow-shaped gizmo (what is that thing called?) on the inside of the side plate, the one the trigger moves to actuate the trigger bar, that isn't getting back to the right place. At least that's the problem on mine. After firing, when the new round is chambered and everything stops moving, the little spring loaded pin on the trigger bar is bearing against the upper end of that elbow. When you relax your grip on the trigger to fire again, the trigger should go all the way forward, allowing the elbow to return to its pre-firing position, and the pin on the trigger bar is supposed to slip beneath the upper end of the elbow, so when you pull the trigger again, it actuates the trigger bar and releases the firing pin. What's happening on mine is that the pin on the trigger bar doesn't slide under, but holds the elbow in place, not allowing it to return to the pre-firing position, and I can see that the trigger has not returned all the way forward. If I push the trigger forward, I can hear a little "click," and that's the pin popping back in place. Now I can pull the trigger and it fires again. I didn't figure all this out on my own, but had help from the forum. The first sticky on here was begun by someone who had the same problem, and "Hugh" came back with a fix, complete with photos of the relevant parts. Check that out and I bet you can solve your problem. good luck, Kirk

06-10-2007, 09:32 PM	#11
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	I was had some suspisions about my sideplate. I'll check it out. Thanks __________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

06-17-2007, 04:19 PM	#12
Alx User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nashville, Tennessee area Posts: 263 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I believe this is cured best by using a different lever, the L -shaped trigger lever with a hole in the middle. It's upper bearing face has to get away from the sear bar plunger when the trigger is relaxed to return forward, and is forced away by the lower bearing surface on the trigger itself, pushing the lever up and thus away, but the angle of the lever is too closed to let it back away sufficiently to clear the plunger disconnect. Often a minutely wider angle on this part lets the lever back away enough, on trigger return, without messing up the pulling trigger action.

06-17-2007, 05:56 PM	#13
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	I think the trigger lever on mine was hanging up. I cleaning and lubricatde the area a little bit and reinstalled the sideplate, she shoots great now. The only other thing I can possibly think of is that the sideplate was not seated right and I corrected the problem when I reistalled it. __________________ "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."