Re- Finish prior to Re-Issue??

Ron Smith · 06-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Maybe I have just missed reading or seeing this someplace.

Does anyone know if there is documentation on Imperial Lugers being re-furbished or re-finished or "dipped" prior to being issued to Reichswehr units?

I have seen reference made to " Re-worked Lugers being arsenal re-finished" by on-line sellers and even by some well known on-line dealers. I have always passed this off as "sales hype" to justify high prices on re-finished Lugers.

If this is indeed fact? Is there documented evidence?

Thanks! Ron

Edward Tinker · 06-11-2006, 11:36 AM

Ron, I wrote this on Jan's forum;

I can not speak for many army pistols, but after WW1 Simson was given the sole right to refinish / refurbish guns for the army and police. That said, if it needed to be redone, a reblue would be in order? I also know that DWM refinished / refurbished (that is probably a better word) when needed for the army and police.

For the police, after receiving a sear safety would it need a reblue? Probably not, however, after a magazine safety was added or taken off, then it would require toucing up?

I take each arsenal reblue with a grain of salt when I hear it from dealers or other folks. Rounded edges, previous markings, etc., shouldn't be cleaned off.

That said, I have seen many "faint" markings on the early reichswehr guns, the dove on the right, they seem VERY light, I assumed they were buffed lightly when "rearsenaled" but my feeling is starting to think many times the die was of a weak or malleable metal and thus did not strike very deep.

Ed

Captain Emo · 06-12-2006, 09:46 PM

Don't you think that double dates would have had to be reblued?

Ron Smith · 06-12-2006, 10:26 PM

Emo,

I'm sure that some may have been. I am just trying to determine if anyone has documentation to the fact that they have been or were dipped, re-blued or otherwise refinished.

Re-works and/or rebuilds were probably stripped and re-blued in some instances. I am trying to determine if non-re-works (pistols which were not physically altered or re-built) were ever just expediently re-blued to improve or preserve the overall finish.

Dwight Gruber · 06-13-2006, 01:00 PM

CEmo,

The 1920 property mark was to be applied to -all- Lugers, other guns, and other property belonging to Reichswehr. It was to be performed by all armorers and armories, to all guns already in service. By example, the marking was done on a catch-as-can basis, using all manner of dies, and done with variable levels of skill. I think it is certain that these guns were not called in to to the Simson factory (or anywhere else) to be refinished.

Jan C Still · 06-13-2006, 01:32 PM

Ron
You asked "Does anyone know if there is documentation on Imperial Lugers being re-furbished or re-finished or "dipped" prior to being issued to Reichswehr units?"
I do not know of any documentation; however, observation of many Weimar marked (1920 property stamp) Imperial Lugers indicates that many/most retain their original Imperial finish.

A 1922 decree by the Prussian Minister of the Interior made Simson the major facility for the rework/repair of various arms including the P.08. DWM was mostly left out of the rework program (Weimar Lugers, page 26 footnote 15).
Jan

06-11-2006, 11:32 AM	#1
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Re- Finish prior to Re-Issue?? Maybe I have just missed reading or seeing this someplace. Does anyone know if there is documentation on Imperial Lugers being re-furbished or re-finished or "dipped" prior to being issued to Reichswehr units? I have seen reference made to " Re-worked Lugers being arsenal re-finished" by on-line sellers and even by some well known on-line dealers. I have always passed this off as "sales hype" to justify high prices on re-finished Lugers. If this is indeed fact? Is there documented evidence? Thanks! Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-11-2006, 11:36 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Ron, I wrote this on Jan's forum; I can not speak for many army pistols, but after WW1 Simson was given the sole right to refinish / refurbish guns for the army and police. That said, if it needed to be redone, a reblue would be in order? I also know that DWM refinished / refurbished (that is probably a better word) when needed for the army and police. For the police, after receiving a sear safety would it need a reblue? Probably not, however, after a magazine safety was added or taken off, then it would require toucing up? I take each arsenal reblue with a grain of salt when I hear it from dealers or other folks. Rounded edges, previous markings, etc., shouldn't be cleaned off. That said, I have seen many "faint" markings on the early reichswehr guns, the dove on the right, they seem VERY light, I assumed they were buffed lightly when "rearsenaled" but my feeling is starting to think many times the die was of a weak or malleable metal and thus did not strike very deep. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-12-2006, 10:26 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Emo, I'm sure that some may have been. I am just trying to determine if anyone has documentation to the fact that they have been or were dipped, re-blued or otherwise refinished. Re-works and/or rebuilds were probably stripped and re-blued in some instances. I am trying to determine if non-re-works (pistols which were not physically altered or re-built) were ever just expediently re-blued to improve or preserve the overall finish. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-12-2006, 09:46 PM	#3
Captain Emo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mid-West Posts: 111 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don't you think that double dates would have had to be reblued?

06-13-2006, 01:00 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	CEmo, The 1920 property mark was to be applied to -all- Lugers, other guns, and other property belonging to Reichswehr. It was to be performed by all armorers and armories, to all guns already in service. By example, the marking was done on a catch-as-can basis, using all manner of dies, and done with variable levels of skill. I think it is certain that these guns were not called in to to the Simson factory (or anywhere else) to be refinished.

06-13-2006, 01:32 PM	#6
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Ron You asked "Does anyone know if there is documentation on Imperial Lugers being re-furbished or re-finished or "dipped" prior to being issued to Reichswehr units?" I do not know of any documentation; however, observation of many Weimar marked (1920 property stamp) Imperial Lugers indicates that many/most retain their original Imperial finish. A 1922 decree by the Prussian Minister of the Interior made Simson the major facility for the rework/repair of various arms including the P.08. DWM was mostly left out of the rework program (Weimar Lugers, page 26 footnote 15). Jan