Dutch holster

Herb · 12-15-2005, 10:33 PM

Found this one, I know next to nothing about these, condition is mint, what do you who know think? It is supposed to be an authentic item. These are the only photos available, thanks, Herb.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dutch_1_copy1.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dutch2.jpg

Vlim · 12-16-2005, 07:34 AM

Herb,

My first impression is 'repro'.

Ron Wood · 12-16-2005, 12:16 PM

I think Gerben's impression is probably correct. The markings are unlike any I have seen on a Dutch holster. Good repros are being made...Simpson sold a Dutch Luger within the last couple of months that came with a repro holster that, as I recall, looked somewhat like this one. What is the asking price for the holster?

Herb · 12-16-2005, 12:32 PM

Ron, I have that feeling also it's just too nice to be that old. It's being offered as an authentic item, starting bid is $300. I Googled the heck out of the internet a few weeks ago when you, I think it was you, posted that link to Simpsons site. I couldn't find anything about any reproduction Dutch hoslters, lots of others, but no Dutch. If someone is selling them why are they so hard to find, not good business practice. I'd buy a reasonable repro to go with my Vickers, but $300 is a little much for a repro.

Ron Wood · 12-16-2005, 01:50 PM

Yes, $300 is pretty steep for a repro, but it is a difficult holster to make properly and this one looks fairly good from the photos shown. An original holster is going to cost from 6 to 10 times that amount depending on condition. I agree with you that anyone making that quality of repro ought to be advertising, but if someone can pass them off as original and get far more than a repro price, perhaps the greed factor is too great.
It appears to be a very nicely made holster and would make a good "place holder" until a real one comes along...I just wish it only cost about 1/2 what they are asking, then I would buy one.

Herb · 12-16-2005, 01:54 PM

OK, the whining is over, I got the thing for $345. I contacted the auction house and was assured that their expert had verified that it is in fact an original authentic Dutch holster. I have done a whole pot full of business with this auction house back in the 80's and early 90's and of the several hundred items I bought I never found a repro or fake that wasn't so stated. It comes with a money back 30 day guarentee if I'm not completely satisfied, so lets see what it looks like in the hand sometime around Xmas. I will be able to post pictures of it if anyone is interested.

Vlim · 12-16-2005, 02:45 PM

Herb,

The closure strap and it's configuration are not what I'd expect to see on a Dutch holster. Normally a brass plate is present, with a slit through which a brass lip is sticking out. The strap is fed through this brass lip. This holster has a closure strap similar to a German Police holster.

When the Dutch crown was used on military items, it was always a combination of the crown and a letter underneath, where the letter would depict the then king/queen. In the KNIL days it would have been a crown/W for queen Wilhelmina. Followed after 1948 by a crown/J for queen Juliana.

For 345 bucks it's a nice holster, though.

Land of Borchardt shows a Dutch holster in the normal configuration:

http://www.landofborchardt.com/image...ers/dutch1.jpg

Herb · 12-16-2005, 02:59 PM

Thanks Gerben, I noticed that it is not a standard closure strap, however in Martens and deVries they say that there were several different models of the holsters made and with various differences in the closures. If you have the book on page 206 is a picture of some Dutch Marines wearing holsters that appear to have this type of closure strap however it's hard to really be sure. What the heck, I have 30 days to examine it and send it back if it's a repro. Why would a repro have such a glaring fault as that closure strap, it's pretty obvious.
Did you get my PM about the Maxim book?

Vlim · 12-16-2005, 03:09 PM

Hi Herb,

Got the PM and mailed you with some addidional info. That's going to be an interesting bit of research, as I found more clues that point into the direction of Hudson Maxim being the owner and corrector, albeit not for the sake of Hiram, but more for his own book.

The Dutch marines on page 206 are carrying the 'pistool nr. 1' (the Dutch Navy luger), the P08 style version without the stock lug. The holsters are pretty similar to standard German P08 style holsters.

Perhaps Hugh can comment on the configuration of the holster?

lugerholsterrepair · 12-16-2005, 04:40 PM

Herb did me the courtesy of sending me a photo. This is a reproduction . The brass closure assembly's used on original Dutch holsters are very small and quite difficult to make. The tiney rivets must be hand hammered on. These would not be economically feasable to replicate. Hence the steel stud closure on this repro. Jerry Burney

Herb · 12-16-2005, 04:49 PM

Thanks all for looking at this thing. As usual, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Gerben, I haven't recieved anything from you about the Maxim book yet.

Vlim · 12-17-2005, 04:03 PM

Herb, message got stuck somehow. It should've reached you by now. I'll resend it just in case.

12-15-2005, 10:33 PM	#1
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dutch holster Found this one, I know next to nothing about these, condition is mint, what do you who know think? It is supposed to be an authentic item. These are the only photos available, thanks, Herb. http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dutch_1_copy1.jpg http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/dutch2.jpg __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-16-2005, 12:16 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I think Gerben's impression is probably correct. The markings are unlike any I have seen on a Dutch holster. Good repros are being made...Simpson sold a Dutch Luger within the last couple of months that came with a repro holster that, as I recall, looked somewhat like this one. What is the asking price for the holster? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-16-2005, 12:32 PM	#4
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron, I have that feeling also it's just too nice to be that old. It's being offered as an authentic item, starting bid is $300. I Googled the heck out of the internet a few weeks ago when you, I think it was you, posted that link to Simpsons site. I couldn't find anything about any reproduction Dutch hoslters, lots of others, but no Dutch. If someone is selling them why are they so hard to find, not good business practice. I'd buy a reasonable repro to go with my Vickers, but $300 is a little much for a repro. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-16-2005, 01:50 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Yes, $300 is pretty steep for a repro, but it is a difficult holster to make properly and this one looks fairly good from the photos shown. An original holster is going to cost from 6 to 10 times that amount depending on condition. I agree with you that anyone making that quality of repro ought to be advertising, but if someone can pass them off as original and get far more than a repro price, perhaps the greed factor is too great. It appears to be a very nicely made holster and would make a good "place holder" until a real one comes along...I just wish it only cost about 1/2 what they are asking, then I would buy one. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-16-2005, 01:54 PM	#6
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	OK, the whining is over, I got the thing for $345. I contacted the auction house and was assured that their expert had verified that it is in fact an original authentic Dutch holster. I have done a whole pot full of business with this auction house back in the 80's and early 90's and of the several hundred items I bought I never found a repro or fake that wasn't so stated. It comes with a money back 30 day guarentee if I'm not completely satisfied, so lets see what it looks like in the hand sometime around Xmas. I will be able to post pictures of it if anyone is interested. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-16-2005, 07:34 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,941 Times in 1,196 Posts	Herb, My first impression is 'repro'.

12-16-2005, 02:45 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,941 Times in 1,196 Posts	Herb, The closure strap and it's configuration are not what I'd expect to see on a Dutch holster. Normally a brass plate is present, with a slit through which a brass lip is sticking out. The strap is fed through this brass lip. This holster has a closure strap similar to a German Police holster. When the Dutch crown was used on military items, it was always a combination of the crown and a letter underneath, where the letter would depict the then king/queen. In the KNIL days it would have been a crown/W for queen Wilhelmina. Followed after 1948 by a crown/J for queen Juliana. For 345 bucks it's a nice holster, though. Land of Borchardt shows a Dutch holster in the normal configuration: http://www.landofborchardt.com/image...ers/dutch1.jpg

12-16-2005, 02:59 PM	#8
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Gerben, I noticed that it is not a standard closure strap, however in Martens and deVries they say that there were several different models of the holsters made and with various differences in the closures. If you have the book on page 206 is a picture of some Dutch Marines wearing holsters that appear to have this type of closure strap however it's hard to really be sure. What the heck, I have 30 days to examine it and send it back if it's a repro. Why would a repro have such a glaring fault as that closure strap, it's pretty obvious. Did you get my PM about the Maxim book? __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-16-2005, 03:09 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,941 Times in 1,196 Posts	Hi Herb, Got the PM and mailed you with some addidional info. That's going to be an interesting bit of research, as I found more clues that point into the direction of Hudson Maxim being the owner and corrector, albeit not for the sake of Hiram, but more for his own book. The Dutch marines on page 206 are carrying the 'pistool nr. 1' (the Dutch Navy luger), the P08 style version without the stock lug. The holsters are pretty similar to standard German P08 style holsters. Perhaps Hugh can comment on the configuration of the holster?

12-16-2005, 04:40 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,104 Times in 1,429 Posts	Herb did me the courtesy of sending me a photo. This is a reproduction . The brass closure assembly's used on original Dutch holsters are very small and quite difficult to make. The tiney rivets must be hand hammered on. These would not be economically feasable to replicate. Hence the steel stud closure on this repro. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-16-2005, 04:49 PM	#11
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dutch holster Thanks all for looking at this thing. As usual, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Gerben, I haven't recieved anything from you about the Maxim book yet. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

12-17-2005, 04:03 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,941 Times in 1,196 Posts	Herb, message got stuck somehow. It should've reached you by now. I'll resend it just in case.