Liberator

Rod WMG · 04-27-2005, 03:09 AM

I was browsing some auctions a day or so ago (Maybe from a link Pete provided?) and saw a Liberator with an estimate of $550 to $650, if my failing memory is correct.

Seems pretty high for a buck ninety-eight gun.

I know probably not many survived or made it back here, but still.... It was in pretty rough shape BTW.

Pete Ebbink · 04-27-2005, 06:13 AM

Is it true these were only good for 1 shot and it had no rifling in the barrel...?

the gunman · 04-27-2005, 08:46 AM

No rifling at all Pete smooth bore had one of these years ago (should have kept it) have seen these sell for 1000 up can you beleive it. shot mine at a 55 gal drum 20 feet away could not hit it.

Luke · 04-27-2005, 09:21 AM

Having never seen a picture of this gun, I did a little research on the Internet and turned up the following:

Doesn't compete with the Luger for elegant beauty !

Luke

trigger643 · 04-27-2005, 11:10 AM

My understanding is that although several thousand of these were bilt, none were actually ever used in combat. The theory behind these was drop them in with a box of ammo and use them to get ahold of a real weapon from an enemy combatant.

It's been years since I've owned one or studied up on them and my memory could be wrong in this respect. One thing I do vividly recall was you had to be within about 10' to hit anything with it and it had about a 10# trigger pull.

A kin to the liberator was a shotgun that was made during the war which I recall was used in limited numbers in the philipines. It too was a single shot and crudely made, dropped into rebel areas with the same intent: that it be used to secure a real weapon.

Rod WMG · 04-27-2005, 12:46 PM

trigger643, I was under the impression that a few were used, at least, but I could be wrong as it's been a LONG time since I casually studied these.

For those who don't know, if my memory is correct the division of GM which made light housings for cars made these. Gives one an idea of why they were so cheap to produce.

And, yes, the theory was that a resistance person could get in real close and secure himself a real gun.

If the one I saw was going to sell for $650, the one pictured above should be worth $2,000!

Ron Wood · 04-27-2005, 12:57 PM

A mint Liberator with original instruction sheet, wood dowel and box will easily top $2000.

Edward Tinker · 04-27-2005, 01:52 PM

There were something like a 100,000 made or more.

I have heard that many were dropped in Europe, as I have seen them in musuems there, but they were gathered up and destroyed.

Ed

trigger643 · 04-27-2005, 01:54 PM

Rod, it's been a couple of decades since I owned one and studied up on them. You are right about GM signal lamp division making them. I don't recall their exact name, but they specialized in stamping headlamp bucket assemblies.

I paid about $200 for mine with the pict-o-gram instruction pamphlet 20 years ago and traded it for something more useful immediately after shooting it.

Navy · 04-27-2005, 02:46 PM

It was made by the Guide Lamp division of GM, IIRC.

Tom A.

John Sabato · 04-27-2005, 03:02 PM

I have always been facinated by this little pistol...

I know that there is an excellent hardcover book on the Liberator pistol and it's history... I saw it in the bookstore at the NRA Headquarters Museum here in Fairfax, VA last summer... unfortunately, I don't remember the author or the title

sorry.

I didn't buy it because as I recall the price tag was a hefty one... and since I don't own one, I passed on the purchase.

BTW, there were two of these pistols at the Dulles Expo Gun Show a few months back... I didn't bother to ask them to flip over the price tag under the glass... no use wasting their time...

Look up NRA museum phone number and ask for the bookstore. I am sure they will be glad to help with the title and would probably even mail it to you if you are interested.

Ron Wood · 04-27-2005, 04:00 PM

The book was written by Ralph Hagen and it costs $40. Check out this link: Liberator Pistol

Edward Tinker · 04-27-2005, 06:59 PM

Quote:

During 1942 over a six month period one million pistols were produced. Actual production of the pistol was about 11 weeks. Using that figure, 300 people produced a pistol with 23 parts every 6.6 seconds, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for 11 weeks.

Knew it was a lot of pistols....

Pete Ebbink · 08-07-2005, 09:08 PM

More interesting stuff from the Net :

Herb · 08-07-2005, 11:07 PM

If you think that thing is inaccurate try the North American Arms Guardian 380 auto. From 10 feet away I couldn't hit a 2' square target once with 6 shots. I'll have to admit that it makes a heck of a bang tho, not bad for $400 bucks.

lugerlou · 08-08-2005, 12:08 AM

These were very unique pistols, with the US airforce dropping many of these little fellows over Belgium and France to supply resistance groups.
Most were destroyed after the war as they were built very cheap for purposes already explained.

I have one in my collection but do not have the dowel and box.Can post detailed photos on Stills site if required as I have not mastered this forum's photo posting as of yet.

The odd one circulates in the north but very infrequently

John Sabato · 08-08-2005, 11:51 AM

lugerlou...

Please see the Site Help and Feedback forum... there is a fine photo upload and display totorial stored there that was written years ago by Ed Tinker... it is still valid and quite simple to follow... even TOM ARMSTRONG finally got the hang of it!

Give it a try... if you make some mistakes, Ed or I will be glad to delete them for you. You can't hurt your computer or the forum by trying... Just remember that the photos must be under 200K in filesize in order to be uploaded. The Upload link is in the top right hand corner of every page...

lugerlou · 08-08-2005, 11:59 PM

john Sabato

Thankyou for the tip, will try.

MarkC · 08-17-2005, 10:20 PM

A very rare gun and for a few hundred bucks I'd buy another.

Here is a link with some information for my pistol. Mine still has the original instructions!

http://www.p38guns.com/FP-45.htm

lugerlou · 08-21-2005, 08:28 PM

[IMG]http://[/IMG]

04-27-2005, 03:09 AM	#1
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Liberator I was browsing some auctions a day or so ago (Maybe from a link Pete provided?) and saw a Liberator with an estimate of $550 to $650, if my failing memory is correct. Seems pretty high for a buck ninety-eight gun. I know probably not many survived or made it back here, but still.... It was in pretty rough shape BTW.

04-27-2005, 09:21 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Having never seen a picture of this gun, I did a little research on the Internet and turned up the following: Doesn't compete with the Luger for elegant beauty ! Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-27-2005, 11:10 AM	#5
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	My understanding is that although several thousand of these were bilt, none were actually ever used in combat. The theory behind these was drop them in with a box of ammo and use them to get ahold of a real weapon from an enemy combatant. It's been years since I've owned one or studied up on them and my memory could be wrong in this respect. One thing I do vividly recall was you had to be within about 10' to hit anything with it and it had about a 10# trigger pull. A kin to the liberator was a shotgun that was made during the war which I recall was used in limited numbers in the philipines. It too was a single shot and crudely made, dropped into rebel areas with the same intent: that it be used to secure a real weapon. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

04-27-2005, 12:57 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	A mint Liberator with original instruction sheet, wood dowel and box will easily top $2000. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-27-2005, 01:54 PM	#9
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Rod, it's been a couple of decades since I owned one and studied up on them. You are right about GM signal lamp division making them. I don't recall their exact name, but they specialized in stamping headlamp bucket assemblies. I paid about $200 for mine with the pict-o-gram instruction pamphlet 20 years ago and traded it for something more useful immediately after shooting it. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

04-27-2005, 06:13 AM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Is it true these were only good for 1 shot and it had no rifling in the barrel...?

04-27-2005, 08:46 AM	#3
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	No rifling at all Pete smooth bore had one of these years ago (should have kept it) have seen these sell for 1000 up can you beleive it. shot mine at a 55 gal drum 20 feet away could not hit it.

04-27-2005, 12:46 PM	#6
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	trigger643, I was under the impression that a few were used, at least, but I could be wrong as it's been a LONG time since I casually studied these. For those who don't know, if my memory is correct the division of GM which made light housings for cars made these. Gives one an idea of why they were so cheap to produce. And, yes, the theory was that a resistance person could get in real close and secure himself a real gun. If the one I saw was going to sell for $650, the one pictured above should be worth $2,000!

04-27-2005, 01:52 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	There were something like a 100,000 made or more. I have heard that many were dropped in Europe, as I have seen them in musuems there, but they were gathered up and destroyed. Ed

04-27-2005, 02:46 PM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	It was made by the Guide Lamp division of GM, IIRC. Tom A.

04-27-2005, 03:02 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I have always been facinated by this little pistol... I know that there is an excellent hardcover book on the Liberator pistol and it's history... I saw it in the bookstore at the NRA Headquarters Museum here in Fairfax, VA last summer... unfortunately, I don't remember the author or the title sorry. I didn't buy it because as I recall the price tag was a hefty one... and since I don't own one, I passed on the purchase. BTW, there were two of these pistols at the Dulles Expo Gun Show a few months back... I didn't bother to ask them to flip over the price tag under the glass... no use wasting their time... Look up NRA museum phone number and ask for the bookstore. I am sure they will be glad to help with the title and would probably even mail it to you if you are interested. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-27-2005, 04:00 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The book was written by Ralph Hagen and it costs $40. Check out this link: Liberator Pistol __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-07-2005, 09:08 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	More interesting stuff from the Net :

08-07-2005, 11:07 PM	#15
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	If you think that thing is inaccurate try the North American Arms Guardian 380 auto. From 10 feet away I couldn't hit a 2' square target once with 6 shots. I'll have to admit that it makes a heck of a bang tho, not bad for $400 bucks. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-08-2005, 12:08 AM	#16
lugerlou User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	These were very unique pistols, with the US airforce dropping many of these little fellows over Belgium and France to supply resistance groups. Most were destroyed after the war as they were built very cheap for purposes already explained. I have one in my collection but do not have the dowel and box.Can post detailed photos on Stills site if required as I have not mastered this forum's photo posting as of yet. The odd one circulates in the north but very infrequently

08-08-2005, 11:51 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	lugerlou... Please see the Site Help and Feedback forum... there is a fine photo upload and display totorial stored there that was written years ago by Ed Tinker... it is still valid and quite simple to follow... even TOM ARMSTRONG finally got the hang of it! Give it a try... if you make some mistakes, Ed or I will be glad to delete them for you. You can't hurt your computer or the forum by trying... Just remember that the photos must be under 200K in filesize in order to be uploaded. The Upload link is in the top right hand corner of every page... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-08-2005, 11:59 PM	#18
lugerlou User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	john Sabato Thankyou for the tip, will try.

08-17-2005, 10:20 PM	#19
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	A very rare gun and for a few hundred bucks I'd buy another. Here is a link with some information for my pistol. Mine still has the original instructions! http://www.p38guns.com/FP-45.htm

08-21-2005, 08:28 PM	#20
lugerlou User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[IMG]http://[/IMG] Attached Thumbnails