Ir 66

Vlim · 02-24-2005, 09:35 AM

Hi,

If anyone is interested in some background info on the 66th Infantry Regiment (and especially the 2nd battalion), based around Burg / Magdeburg in the 1935-1937 era, just let me know.

I recently acquired a collection of photo's, printed on a postcard-format, from that era. They illustrate the reformation of some loose troops into one of the first German regiments that went to war in 1939.

Sadly, no luger images, but a good overview of the era and could be interesting for someone who owns IR66-marked equipment.

Ron Smith · 02-24-2005, 09:56 AM

Gerben,
I don't have anything marked to that Regiment, but I am trying to accumulate all the photos etc. I can on the Reichswehr prior to WWII. Can you send me some scans or photos?

Thanks, Ron

Vlim · 02-24-2005, 10:50 AM

Hi Ron,

While scanning I noticed something interesting in the corner of this picture. It's one of only a few that show some hardware. This one pictures a set of MG08's together with a number of K98's. In the corner I found something that really looks like a MG18, with a trommelmagazine attached. But after scanning some more images I must admit I was wrong. It's not a magazine, but rather a handle on the bottom, neither does the MG resemble an MG18. Anyone know what it is?

Will post some more images. Most are generally guys marching and parading around. One image of the regiment's goat

and some horses.

Ron Smith · 02-24-2005, 10:59 AM

Kind of looks like "Freddy Feel Good and his Funky Little Five Piece Band".

Vlim · 02-24-2005, 11:03 AM

The tower in the background is a so-called Bismarck tower and these were erected all over Germany to remember Bismarck. These were constructed as lookout-posts with a large fire dish on top and they could be used as signal posts. They were constructed more as memorial than anything else.

This tower still exists today in Burg at Magdeburg.

http://www.bismarcktuerme.de/website.../burgmagd.html

Edward Tinker · 02-24-2005, 12:47 PM

Very interesting Vlim, thanks!

ed

Ron Wood · 02-24-2005, 01:20 PM

Gerben,
Don't know much about these things, but could your unknown weapon be an anti-tank rifle?

Vlim · 02-24-2005, 04:52 PM

Ron,

That thought crossed my mind, but the examples I've seen look different from this one (the PB39 ones). The problem is that some conversions of the MG17 look like this one as well, but according to the reference material I found they were not in ground use until the 1940s, as they were reportedly constructed from surplus aircraft-mounted machine guns.

If it's a modified MG17, then this picture shows that it was in ground use much earlier.

Nomadr · 02-24-2005, 10:34 PM

I believe it is a MG13. Folding rear stock and had a 25 round magazine feed. It was made until about 1939 and replaced by the better MG34.
Bob

Vlim · 02-25-2005, 07:02 AM

Gentlemen,

We have a winner. Nomadr: Your'e absolutely right. Did some searches on MG13 and found a good description + photo on the following links:

http://www.military-collections.com/weapons.html

http://www.dasheer.org.uk/machine_guns.htm

Note that many sources claim that the MG13 was taken out of service in 1934. These images, dating from the 1935-1937 era proof that this is not entirely true and show these were in use, but most probably just as training weapons, well into the late 30s. Thus matching Nomadr's 1939 date.

Paul L · 03-24-2005, 02:05 PM

Gerben,

according to my printed source, "Weapons of the Third Reich, An Encyclopedic Survey of All Small Arms, Artillery and Special Weapons of the German Land Forces 1939-1945.......great source book for info by the way....copyright 1978 by Terry Gander and Peter Chamberlain........

states; 7.92 Maschinengewehr 13, type of feed 25 round box or 75 round saddle drum, rate of fire (cyclic) 550rpm, weight 11.43kg, length 1341mm, length of barrel 720mm, Original Manufacture, Rheinische Metall-waren-und Maschinenfabrik, Sommerda.... umlaut over the o

Remarks,

Evolved by Louis Strange from an earlier Dreyse design to prvide a modern air-cooled selective fire light machine gun for the German army. Officially adopted1932 and pricipal German weapon of this class until 1936 when superceded by MG 34. Afterwards most MG13s sold to Portugal and Spainbut some remained in German service (mainly with garrison units) until 1945........

I believe that this reference makes this LMG much more plausible for the time frame of the photo's you recently acquired............

The book is a great reference source on all weapons that were produced or captured and it gives the German designation for theirs and all captured weapons in their inventories..........plus lots of great black and white photo's of troops and weapons possibly in action..........

HTH, Regards, Paul

02-24-2005, 09:35 AM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Ir 66 Hi, If anyone is interested in some background info on the 66th Infantry Regiment (and especially the 2nd battalion), based around Burg / Magdeburg in the 1935-1937 era, just let me know. I recently acquired a collection of photo's, printed on a postcard-format, from that era. They illustrate the reformation of some loose troops into one of the first German regiments that went to war in 1939. Sadly, no luger images, but a good overview of the era and could be interesting for someone who owns IR66-marked equipment.

02-24-2005, 09:56 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Gerben, I don't have anything marked to that Regiment, but I am trying to accumulate all the photos etc. I can on the Reichswehr prior to WWII. Can you send me some scans or photos? Thanks, Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-24-2005, 10:59 AM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Kind of looks like "Freddy Feel Good and his Funky Little Five Piece Band". __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-24-2005, 12:47 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Very interesting Vlim, thanks! ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-24-2005, 01:20 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Gerben, Don't know much about these things, but could your unknown weapon be an anti-tank rifle? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-24-2005, 10:50 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Hi Ron, While scanning I noticed something interesting in the corner of this picture. It's one of only a few that show some hardware. This one pictures a set of MG08's together with a number of K98's. In the corner I found something that really looks like a MG18, with a trommelmagazine attached. But after scanning some more images I must admit I was wrong. It's not a magazine, but rather a handle on the bottom, neither does the MG resemble an MG18. Anyone know what it is? Will post some more images. Most are generally guys marching and parading around. One image of the regiment's goat and some horses.

02-24-2005, 11:03 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	The tower in the background is a so-called Bismarck tower and these were erected all over Germany to remember Bismarck. These were constructed as lookout-posts with a large fire dish on top and they could be used as signal posts. They were constructed more as memorial than anything else. This tower still exists today in Burg at Magdeburg. http://www.bismarcktuerme.de/website.../burgmagd.html

02-24-2005, 04:52 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Ron, That thought crossed my mind, but the examples I've seen look different from this one (the PB39 ones). The problem is that some conversions of the MG17 look like this one as well, but according to the reference material I found they were not in ground use until the 1940s, as they were reportedly constructed from surplus aircraft-mounted machine guns. If it's a modified MG17, then this picture shows that it was in ground use much earlier.

02-24-2005, 10:34 PM	#9
Nomadr Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 276 Thanks: 16 Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts	I believe it is a MG13. Folding rear stock and had a 25 round magazine feed. It was made until about 1939 and replaced by the better MG34. Bob

02-25-2005, 07:02 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Gentlemen, We have a winner. Nomadr: Your'e absolutely right. Did some searches on MG13 and found a good description + photo on the following links: http://www.military-collections.com/weapons.html http://www.dasheer.org.uk/machine_guns.htm Note that many sources claim that the MG13 was taken out of service in 1934. These images, dating from the 1935-1937 era proof that this is not entirely true and show these were in use, but most probably just as training weapons, well into the late 30s. Thus matching Nomadr's 1939 date.

03-24-2005, 02:05 PM	#11
Paul L User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Monroe County, SE Mich. Posts: 76 Thanks: 5 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Gerben, according to my printed source, "Weapons of the Third Reich, An Encyclopedic Survey of All Small Arms, Artillery and Special Weapons of the German Land Forces 1939-1945.......great source book for info by the way....copyright 1978 by Terry Gander and Peter Chamberlain........ states; 7.92 Maschinengewehr 13, type of feed 25 round box or 75 round saddle drum, rate of fire (cyclic) 550rpm, weight 11.43kg, length 1341mm, length of barrel 720mm, Original Manufacture, Rheinische Metall-waren-und Maschinenfabrik, Sommerda.... umlaut over the o Remarks, Evolved by Louis Strange from an earlier Dreyse design to prvide a modern air-cooled selective fire light machine gun for the German army. Officially adopted1932 and pricipal German weapon of this class until 1936 when superceded by MG 34. Afterwards most MG13s sold to Portugal and Spainbut some remained in German service (mainly with garrison units) until 1945........ I believe that this reference makes this LMG much more plausible for the time frame of the photo's you recently acquired............ The book is a great reference source on all weapons that were produced or captured and it gives the German designation for theirs and all captured weapons in their inventories..........plus lots of great black and white photo's of troops and weapons possibly in action.......... HTH, Regards, Paul