ROCK ISLAND APRIL AUCTION

[Big Norm]

I was thinking about attending the April auction in Moline,Ill. Today I called them to ask some questions about the auction and a particular gun that I am interested in. During the discussion, I found out that, beginning in April, there will be an addition fee charge of 2.5% for people who use ANY credit card for a purchase. This charge will be on top of the 15% Buyers Premium that they already charge. They will continue to NOT charge an additional fee for people who pay in cash or by check. I certainly would not want to drive all the way from Detroit to Moline with a lot of cash. The police could take it all under existing drug enforcement laws. I might have to reconsider going to this auction.
Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

[Pete Ebbink]

I wonder what items Norm will be after...???



p.s. I got "pre-qualifed" with the G-M auction folks here in the Bay Area...seems like the RIA folks have a similar set-up...

p.s.s. Hey Norm...there is an easy way to beat that 15% buyer's premium...just spend over $ 50k and it drops down to a mere 10%...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Big Norm]

Petey baby,
no secret. I am interested in the 1906 navy (and possibly, rig). But I am also interested in a certain artillery rigs. But before I make the LONG trip to Moline, Ill. from the Detroit area, I want to ask some questions before I load up my motorhome with some expensive gas (and repair a leaky ceiling and water tank). Taking a motorhome deer hunting during the rifle season in Michigan can really ruin a good motorhome.

The competiveness in me wants to challenge a certain deservatively, respected member of this forum whom I shall refer to as 'The Machine' but otherwise will keep anonymous. This individual has me beat by having a certain 1904 navy and now has a rare 1943 Kreighoff rig. I have a prized 1943 Kreighoff but he beat me by having a rig. By having a full navy rig, I hope to close the challenging gap that he is creating.

I have a very nice set of WW1 Era artilleries. I have matching stocks AND mags on all but the 1914 DWM and 1916. On the navies, I am only missing the 1906 second issue and, of course, the 1904. If the Rock Island auction has a 1906 navy rig 2nd issue, then at least I can keep THE 'machine' from getting too far ahead of me and fill in a slot that is currently empty. But having 3 of the 4 1906's isn't exactly chopped liver.

I have (3) 1914 DWM artilleries (2 with matching mags) and a 1916 (nice, but without matching stock AND/OR mag), but they are not rigs. I have many navies but non that are rigs. So my primary current goals are to get
(1) a 1906 navy 2nd issue rig
(2) a 1916 artillery rig (I already have (2) full leather setups for this date)
(3) artillery holsters with all the leather attachments that are dated to the chamber dates on my artilleries.

I also have some other Lugers, but the above mentioned objects are my challenges. I know that I am bragging, but what the heck. This is what all the Luger forums like to hear and I am not above (or below) doing a bite of bragging. Life is short.

I also emailed Brant Auctions in New York about a number of artilleries and accessories that they are selling. But those yahoos did not respond to my questions. So write them off. Gotta get my digs in at that outfit.

I hunt these articles down but I am not willing to pay outrageous prices. We live in a capitalistic society but I am not about to put some guys kid through college by paying a rediculous price just to satisfy my admitted egotism. The fun in collecting (and investing) is the hunt for what you want and paying what you think is a fair price. You can buy anything you want, if you have the money. But what fun is that?

But I am currently going to wait until Rock Island publishes their catalog which will finalize their auction items. Some people pull items off of their lists before an auction. This will take another two weeks as of this writing. Then I will ask some more questions to someone who knows Lugers at that auction before making a decision about attending. I don't want to drive that distance just to look at some nice lugers. I can stay home and do that.

Gosh, I sure write a lot, don't I?
Big Norm

[Navy]

Hey Norm,

It is not enough to merely have an '06 Navy rig, one must possess one that is unit marked to a "desirable" unit...mine is marked to a Naval Zepplin unit....

Tom A.

[MauserLugers]

Hi Norm,
Good luck at the auction. You are not going to "steal" any of those prime items and does anyone know what a "fair" or "decent" price is at the moment, let alone "outrageous". You won't be alone at the auction, that's for sure!

BTW, I also have all the artillery dates with matching stocks/magazine/and holsters in the 15,16,17, and 18 dates, and matching magazines on the two 14's, but not the matching stocks. Yep, you're absolutely right Norm, it does feel good to brag a little....... smiling! -- Bill

[John Sabato]

alright you guys... if you are going to brag, the penalty is to crank up your digital cameras and crank out a photo essay to document your vast collections and post them in the Member Gallery like Doug G. was kind enough to do...

get crackin'... (that'll teach em to brag! ) so the rest of us can enjoy lookin' and droolin' over them.

[ratdog]

I can honestly say I own none!!!!!

[Doubs]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by ratdog:
<strong>I can honestly say I own none!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Then you are indeed poverty stricken and you have my deepest sympathy!
<img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

[Big Norm]

TomA,
lets see...Zepplin, Zepplin...yah, I got it. Thats the name of a rock and roll group. Lead Zepplin. Your gun sounds post WW2 to me. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

Actually, I generally avoid the unit marked guns because the unit marking are generally not standardized. This can leave it open for counterfeiting. Your known experience and wisdom probably helps you to avoid this predicament. Me, I try to focus on the gun itself. I don't always have trusted friends to help me out on the more desirable collector Lugers.

To others,
as far as determining what is a good price or a rediculous price is concerned, you and you alone are responsible for making that decision. You have to do the research and the searching for the right Luger at what you consider is the right price. Nobody else is responsible or even cares about your hard earned, after tax money. There is no better fertilizer than the steps of a farmer.

I could go into many examples of rediculous prices, both high and low. But that is ancient history. But before I decide on whether or not to go to Rock Island auction, I will ask some questions to the people there on the phone. And then, if I decide to go, I will know what I intend to spend. I generally don't pay a lot of attention to holsters, but the item that I am going for is a bite different. Before I go I will study navy Luger holsters so that I will have an idea on what I am looking at. Good fortune favors the prepared mind. Pete is good at that.

But if I don't go or if I am outbid, thats OK too. Tomorrows another day. Maybe something else even better will pop up later. Its not a life and death matter. It could be a long but nice drive out there. I could also see some big money shooters in action and learn how this auction functions.
Big Norm

[tracyp]

Big Norm,

I don't know if you've been there before, but if your going to Rock Island you might stop by Simpson's. They're only a few miles away.

How come they call it Rock Island Auction when it's in Moline not Rock Island?

How far's the drive from Michigan to Moline, IL.

Tracy

[Navy]

Big Norm,

My impressions of you through these years on the forum have been uniformly positive and I believe there is no reason to change this.

I am a *mite* concerned that you seem to envision our hobby as a contest. We are all in this together and through this wonderful internet shared information medium, we can assist fellow toggle top collectors enhance their collections and spread information on what is righteous and what is bogus.

We can also use it as a medium to broadcast: "I got one of these and you don't!"

Admittedly, I take a very focused approach to my collection. I am a former Army Special Forces officer and always took a very focused approach to my mission. Now, as the CEO of my own companies, my attention is laser guided on making my customers happy. It has paid BIG dividends.

So, lets work together,

The acquisition of the 1943 K/hoff rig is a veritable text book example of how men of good character can work together to achieve a common goal. John D.'s assistance was crucial to making the deal come together.

And, oh, by the way, I have the full rig and you don't! LOL!!

Tom A.

[Edward Tinker]

Tom, I look forward to the day when we meet and and also Big Norm, off line I have talked to you and Norm, and all I can say is. "let the constest begin", I Know from experience that you'll share knowledge and pictures of your sweet new (old and un-touched) babies!

So, the comment; </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">And, oh, by the way, I have the full rig and you don't! LOL!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">did make my day!

Ed

[Big Norm]

TomA,
I keep a folder, outside the internet, of things that I thought are of special importance about Luger collecting. Most of the articles are ones that you have written, but Ron Wood is a close second with Pete galloping upward. You saved me a bundle on a certain 1904 navy that I thought about buying which turned out to be a repro. I won't forget that.

We seem to like the same era and types of lugers so I tend to read your information more closely. I started my Luger collecting by going after artilleries and initially thought that I could never afford a navy. As time went on, my financial situaltion changed and I started going after navies and then Kreighoffs. I stopped going after Kreighoffs when I realized that I wasn't smart enough. Just too many fakes and they are just too expensive to make a mistake on. But I do have four beauties.

Am I envious of you? Heck yah! Do I want to best you? Yep! Do I want to imitate you? Nope! Good Lugers are hard to find without paying what I consider an arm and a leg for. Sometimes you just have to be patient and wait for a window of opportunity to open up. The hunt and work to find them gives them personnal value. Luger collecting is also a fun thing to me and, as such, buying them carries with it a certain degree of entertainment value.

But this collecting also is part of an investment stategy. Now that I am retired from real estate investing, I wanted to find something else away from being totally invested in the unpredictable, but liquid, stock market. I have a conundrum here in that on one hand I believe that cash is king. But, in these inflationary times, I have to entertain the thought that cash is trash. Personally, I don't believe Greenspan when he says that inflation is under control. With my investment thoughts being thus, I believe that the ownership of highly desirable, collectible "things" such as Lugers to fit nicely into my grand financial strategy. A side benefit has been to get more interested in the history of WW1. The history of Germany did not begin and end with Hilter. Too bad that I don't know more about the geographical layout of Europe.

I sincerely hope that you did not glean any hostility from my previous post. I have always enjoyed your posts and I hope that I will continue to do so. I never ment to give the impression that this is something akin to an athletic contest. I desire no ill will towards you and your current or future collection. There may be no reason to since I probably have a better collection of WW1 artillery Lugers than you have anyway. :&gt Happy hunting.
Big Norm

[Big Norm]

To all,
I am considering attending the Rock Island auction. I won't know for sure until approximately March 22nd. That is when, I was told, that their catalog will be completed and I will be able to ask a guy named Ken some questions about the 1906 possible navy rig. He sounds like the guy who knows guns. At that time, I will try to factor in travel time and cost of lodging into the cost of the gun. Since Moline is on the far western side of Illinois, I figure 1.5 to 2 days of driving from Detroit at about 600 miles a day (one way). All this depends on weather since April has unpredictible weather. Then there is one day of inspection and one day of bidding. I could be one tired cowboy when I get there. So going to Simpsons shop is probably out of the question.

Since I travel with my dachshund, Bucky, I would prefer to take my motorhome. But, like usual, I developed a water leak in its roof and in the water tank line during Michigans deer season. Then there is the possible problem of squirrels getting into my engine compartment and chewing up the wires over the winter storage. I probably won't have those problems fixed in time.

I have never been to this auction before so I don't know if I could park in their parking lot over night or how close the nearest campsite would be. I have no idea about how big a town Moline is. In small towns in Northern Michigan you can park in supermarket parking lots overnight. Michigan has lots of state land so I can alway find an old deer hunting trail to pull into. If Moline is like that, then I could chance driving straight through in my motorhome and be fresh for the auction.

I assume that there will be some heavy hitters at this auction since there are some fine looking guns there. I have been to a number of auctions in Michigan and Ohio and have seen many examples of crazy bidding that sometimes goes on at these events. This makes me wonder about the value of going that far for just one or two guns. It would be easy to be outbid by someone going ballistic. Yes, there is a possible second gun that I may be interested in.

If I do go, I sincerely hope that I can meet Ed Tinker there and maybe a few other Lugerforum people too. Maybe I could bring a couple of my "babies" with me for bragging. With Ed now living in Colorado, maybe he could drift over to the show and maybe loan me some money (HEE! HEE!).
Big Norm

[Navy]

Norm,

I inderstand exactly what you were trying to convey and t0ok no offense what so ever.

And it is absolutely certain that you have better artilleries than I as I sold my last one, a neat Persian full rig, about 5 years ago when I started getting serious about Navy guns.

My K'hoff collection is currently 3 and I am in negotiations to acquire SN 170 as portrayed in Gibson's book.

Cheers and I also like your concept of Lugers as investments.

Tom A.

[Big Norm]

Tom,
Yah, investing can be tough. One has to diversify and Lugers with its inherent entertainment and intellectual facets can be a fun involvement away from the stock market. This forums chit-chat only magnifys those pursuits. I believe that I have made a few friends here and I am looking forward meeting some of them in person this summer. I also have made friends with some dealers like Ken and Joe of FGS and have found them to be good guys. I also had the pleasure of meeting Heinz and his son last summer at the OGCA show in Wilmington, Ohio last summer.

I am looking foreward to meeting you sometime in the near future. I don't know what Lugers to bring along since I think that your navy collection is of a better quality than mine. Maybe we could just met over an adult beverage an tell a couple of jokes. But I would like to bring something for show and tell (read that bragging). Actually, very few Lugers in my collection have been restored. Maybe a Kentucky show? Keep us informed of where you might be.
Big Norm

[Navy]

Norm,

"Actually, very few Lugers in my collection have been restored."

I have no restored pistols of which I am aware...granted, someone may have figured a way to out-fox me, it has happened before, but not with Lugers in the last many years.

Looking forward to sharing some barrel squeezins with ya'.

Tom A

[MauserLugers]

Hi Norm,
A couple of years ago I put in some bids on a couple of Lugers from this auction, a 1912 DWM and a 1914 Erfurt with full matching rig. I believe the 1912 brought something like $2200 and the 1914 Erfurt Rig brought something like $14,000 and then the commissions on top of that. Smiling -- I'd suggest you take some serious cash with you. Smiling! If you're not successful at least you'll have a nice drive! --- Bill

[Navy]

This sounds like the place when and if one wants to sell...

Tom A.

[George Anderson]

I agree with Tom as to this being the place to sell. I'll pass a note to that effect along to my future widow.