1939 s/42 too good condition ??

wolfganggo · 10-03-2011, 07:56 PM

Hi Folks
I got an 1939, S/42 in best condition.
Complete with Holster and two matching magazines
Condition is extremly good, that I can’t belive that it’s really original.
On the other hand, many indices, at my opinion, will show no presence of rework.

What makes me doubtful:
Look at the serials at the frame, receiver and barrel. They are matching indeed, but looking at the “4” - fast you can see the difference in the stamps.
Has anyone an idea about the production process, does anyone have a “stempelvorschrift” ready to hand. When doing the serialstamping, was this a workplace for more then one person per gun. Or was every gun serialed by one worker only, then it will be probably an rework.
On the other hand, you will find no ghost lines from an potential removal of old numbers. Look at the barrel, the proofing looks perfect ……

Another point that makes me nervous, I found an “WR” stamping on some parts. Has anyone seen this before, will this be the sign of the gunshop, which reworked the gun ??

Any ideas, comments, help, information ???

Regards from austria

wolfganggo ....

wolfganggo · 10-03-2011, 07:59 PM

to compare as mentioned in the previous post .....
check the "4"

wolfganggo ....

.

wolfganggo · 10-03-2011, 08:03 PM

stamping, found at receiver, front toggle link, frame (below the locking lever)

Has somebody seen this before ???

.

G.T. · 10-03-2011, 08:04 PM

Hi Wolfganggo, you P.08 looks perfect to me... I can't see any signs of re-work in any area... But, having said that, all I'm really positive about is the magazines.. they are 100% original and un-messed with in my humble opinion... Nice gun... best to you, til..lat'r...GT

Norme · 10-03-2011, 08:16 PM

Hi Wolfgang, Your gun looks OK to me, too, but I can't explain the WR stamp. There is plenty of evidence that shows that different die sets were used in different locations in the Mauser plant. Look at the 3's in the photos. Regards, Norm

wolfganggo · 10-03-2011, 08:17 PM

Hello G.T.
any idea about the WR stamp ....

wolfganggo

G.T. · 10-03-2011, 08:26 PM

Hi Wolfganggo, I can only point to the popular theory that it is an in house inspectors stamp and is found quite readily on many Mauser Lugers and parts there of?? I think some Mauser made P.38's have been spotted with this stamp.. I believe, It is thought to be consistant with WW2 manufacture.. That's the best i can speculate... best to you, til...lat'r...GT

spartacus38 · 10-03-2011, 08:38 PM

Beautiful 1939 S/42 with 2 original matching mags.Very hard to find in that condition with the
2 MM.
Bob

Mike Z · 10-03-2011, 08:59 PM

Wolfgang, Thats a Really Nice Luger. She Looks Original. 2 Matched Mags to Boot.
Mike Z.

mrerick · 10-03-2011, 10:10 PM

Very Nice Luger, Congratulations!

I raised the question about the "WR" stamp a year and a half or so ago. It is a Mauser factory mark found on many pistols.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23633

If you look over the parts on Lugers from DWM you see a variety of individual parts inspection stamps that can probably be tracked back to individual inspectors (within the factory, not WaAmt inspectors).

Bninning in 1938, to simplify Mauser quality control inspection, a single stamp was apparently used.

From Frank's post in response to my question:

"Marc, I did a bit of research on the "WR" Mark. In Sam Costanzo's Book "World of Lugers", page 219 he states:

"Quality control inspectors stamp found on bottom frame rail and also on middle toggle link." Found on 1938 through 1941 models."

Vlim also stated:

"Mauser was once officially called 'Waffenfabrik Mauser' (WM). In the 1920s it changed to 'Mauser-Werke A.G.' (MW). So a W and an M in the logo are to be expected."

"The WR / RW logo is often seen in areas that had been inspected for hardness. A popular explanation for the logo is 'Werksrivision', but it is also tempting that it refers to the Rockwell hardness test

"

It would be interesting if plant records from the 1938 timeframe could be found that indicate some kind of reorganization in the internal quality control apparatus at Mauser.

Marc

lugercollector · 10-05-2011, 05:11 AM

Nice Rig!!!..Any History behind it?...Someone must have stored it very well!!

Lugerdoc · 10-05-2011, 10:59 AM

Wolf, The "R in W" Mauser inspectors marking used on some PO8 parts from 1938-42 is attributed to R. Weiss by John Walter in his "The Luger Book" on page 239. This die was also used for proofing on HSCs by the French during their occupation of the Mauser factory (lower left trigger guard area) and perhaps (?) on other firearms assembled from left over WW2 parts. TH

MikeP · 10-06-2011, 02:20 PM

If you don't like it, I'll give it a good home.

Very fine piece.

wolfganggo · 10-10-2011, 06:15 AM

who were answering to my post.
seems like getting a real fine piece to my collection.
i really though i was getting a very well made, but a rework. your answers were real relieving to my mind.

@lugercollector, sorry, i dont have any history available on these rig.

Nice to be in touch with the experts around the world ...

regards, wolfganggo .....

glock30 · 10-10-2011, 10:36 AM

too good? HAVE you ever seen a rework or reblue??? ever? are you joking. this gun is real

10-03-2011, 07:56 PM	#1
wolfganggo User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: near vienna Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 81 Times in 18 Posts	1939 s/42 too good condition ?? Hi Folks I got an 1939, S/42 in best condition. Complete with Holster and two matching magazines Condition is extremly good, that I can’t belive that it’s really original. On the other hand, many indices, at my opinion, will show no presence of rework. What makes me doubtful: Look at the serials at the frame, receiver and barrel. They are matching indeed, but looking at the “4” - fast you can see the difference in the stamps. Has anyone an idea about the production process, does anyone have a “stempelvorschrift” ready to hand. When doing the serialstamping, was this a workplace for more then one person per gun. Or was every gun serialed by one worker only, then it will be probably an rework. On the other hand, you will find no ghost lines from an potential removal of old numbers. Look at the barrel, the proofing looks perfect …… Another point that makes me nervous, I found an “WR” stamping on some parts. Has anyone seen this before, will this be the sign of the gunshop, which reworked the gun ?? Any ideas, comments, help, information ??? Regards from austria wolfganggo .... Attached Thumbnails

10-03-2011, 07:59 PM	#2
wolfganggo User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: near vienna Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 81 Times in 18 Posts	Here the Serials to compare as mentioned in the previous post ..... check the "4" wolfganggo .... . Attached Thumbnails

10-03-2011, 08:03 PM	#3
wolfganggo User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: near vienna Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 81 Times in 18 Posts	Last the "WR" stamping, found at receiver, front toggle link, frame (below the locking lever) Has somebody seen this before ??? . Attached Thumbnails

10-03-2011, 08:04 PM	#4
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Beautiful example... Hi Wolfganggo, you P.08 looks perfect to me... I can't see any signs of re-work in any area... But, having said that, all I'm really positive about is the magazines.. they are 100% original and un-messed with in my humble opinion... Nice gun... best to you, til..lat'r...GT

10-03-2011, 08:16 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Wolfgang, Your gun looks OK to me, too, but I can't explain the WR stamp. There is plenty of evidence that shows that different die sets were used in different locations in the Mauser plant. Look at the 3's in the photos. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

10-03-2011, 08:17 PM	#6
wolfganggo User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: near vienna Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 81 Times in 18 Posts	Hello G.T. any idea about the WR stamp .... wolfganggo

10-03-2011, 08:26 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	Inspectors stamp Hi Wolfganggo, I can only point to the popular theory that it is an in house inspectors stamp and is found quite readily on many Mauser Lugers and parts there of?? I think some Mauser made P.38's have been spotted with this stamp.. I believe, It is thought to be consistant with WW2 manufacture.. That's the best i can speculate... best to you, til...lat'r...GT

10-03-2011, 08:38 PM	#8
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Beautiful 1939 S/42 with 2 original matching mags.Very hard to find in that condition with the 2 MM. Bob

10-03-2011, 08:59 PM	#9
Mike Z User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 180 Thanks: 51 Thanked 79 Times in 39 Posts	Wolfgang, Thats a Really Nice Luger. She Looks Original. 2 Matched Mags to Boot. Mike Z.

10-03-2011, 10:10 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Very Nice Luger, Congratulations! I raised the question about the "WR" stamp a year and a half or so ago. It is a Mauser factory mark found on many pistols. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23633 If you look over the parts on Lugers from DWM you see a variety of individual parts inspection stamps that can probably be tracked back to individual inspectors (within the factory, not WaAmt inspectors). Bninning in 1938, to simplify Mauser quality control inspection, a single stamp was apparently used. From Frank's post in response to my question: "Marc, I did a bit of research on the "WR" Mark. In Sam Costanzo's Book "World of Lugers", page 219 he states: "Quality control inspectors stamp found on bottom frame rail and also on middle toggle link." Found on 1938 through 1941 models." Vlim also stated: "Mauser was once officially called 'Waffenfabrik Mauser' (WM). In the 1920s it changed to 'Mauser-Werke A.G.' (MW). So a W and an M in the logo are to be expected." "The WR / RW logo is often seen in areas that had been inspected for hardness. A popular explanation for the logo is 'Werksrivision', but it is also tempting that it refers to the Rockwell hardness test " It would be interesting if plant records from the 1938 timeframe could be found that indicate some kind of reorganization in the internal quality control apparatus at Mauser. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-05-2011, 05:11 AM	#11
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	Nice Rig!!!..Any History behind it?...Someone must have stored it very well!!

10-05-2011, 10:59 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Wolf, The "R in W" Mauser inspectors marking used on some PO8 parts from 1938-42 is attributed to R. Weiss by John Walter in his "The Luger Book" on page 239. This die was also used for proofing on HSCs by the French during their occupation of the Mauser factory (lower left trigger guard area) and perhaps (?) on other firearms assembled from left over WW2 parts. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-06-2011, 02:20 PM	#13
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	If you don't like it, I'll give it a good home. Very fine piece.

10-10-2011, 06:15 AM	#14
wolfganggo User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: near vienna Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 81 Times in 18 Posts	Thanks to all .... who were answering to my post. seems like getting a real fine piece to my collection. i really though i was getting a very well made, but a rework. your answers were real relieving to my mind. @lugercollector, sorry, i dont have any history available on these rig. Nice to be in touch with the experts around the world ... regards, wolfganggo .....

10-10-2011, 10:36 AM	#15
glock30 User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Obama LAND Posts: 206 Thanks: 18 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	too good? HAVE you ever seen a rework or reblue??? ever? are you joking. this gun is real