Need help with a trade, 1939 42 code

Olle · 09-12-2015, 09:22 PM

I'm thinking about trading with a guy, and I need the forum expert's help. He's interested in one of my guns, and we have established a trade value around $2,500. He offered and even trade on his 1939 42 code 9mm, at least 90% (maybe 95%), all matching including one matching magazine. He has it for sale right now, asking $2,800.

So first of all, is his gun in the ballpark? I realize that I should have taken pictures, but again: Looking for a ballpark value.

Also, the finish looks almost pitch black, with the barrel being glossy without any tool marks. The gun looks nice and crisp overall, no signs of refinish etc, but it does not have a blue tint to it. The seller is an experienced Luger collector and I trust his judgement. but with this kind of money involved I'm not taking any chances. I have compared with a few pictures I found here on the forum, and it looks like the color actually is correct, like a deep salt blue and no strawed small parts. Just want to make sure.

So what would you guys say? Thumbs up or down?

DavidJayUden · 09-12-2015, 09:57 PM

You are putting us in a tough spot here. Your concerns about the finish are significant, and a pitch black finish doesn't seem right to me on any that I have seen. There were a lot of variations in finish in those days, some thin, and some purple-ish, but pitch black?
I suggest that you request photo privileges before committing, OR get a 5 day inspection privilege so that we can give it a better sniff test.
And $2800 for that gun seems to me to be on the VERY high end of the market. I see them listed for that much but doubt that they really bring it.
dju

lfid · 09-13-2015, 12:56 AM

Olle,
in case it may be useful ...
maybe like this restored one - which looks all blackish on my screen ?
http://www.lugercollector.com/_490_m...s42_luger_1939
or
this S/42 same year
http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/3464
or
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...1761BW4142.htm
and several more with a search like
https://www.google.com/imghp?hl=en&t...ed=0CAQQqi4oAg
and use search like "luger 42 1939" or "luger code 42 1939"

search seems to find various closed auctions as well as the websites

good luck in the quest !
Bill

alvin · 09-13-2015, 07:20 AM

3-day or 5-day inspection is not optional. It's a must.

Some guns look good on pictures, but in hand, it's easy to tell issues in 5 minutes. Some guns has suspicious spots, but turned out being picture issue while looking in hand.

With 3-day, or 5-day, the risk is limited on the shipping. Shipping is expensive these days, but comparing with gun value, still nothing. Asking more pictures to evaluate it worth the shipping cost related risk or not. Not the gun value risk.

Although we are practicing our arguing capability on forums, but for gun transaction, prefer a no-question-asked returning policy. And, good sellers should have no problem with that. Of course, for politeness, still list the issues that you found. But that should be optional.

Sergio Natali · 09-13-2015, 08:10 AM

Real pitch black hasn't got much sense to me, unless the gun was blued maybe in the past (?).
Without close and detailed pictures it's almost impossible to assert anything reliable.

Sergio

DonVoigt · 09-13-2015, 10:25 AM

Ollie,
it does not sound like you really "want" this example in trade. If you have any questions about
it- my advice is "don't do it". The price sounds very high, should be a complete rig to be worth anything like $2800, IMO.

Now it it is something you really like, do some more checking, get good pictures or a
5 day "un-swap" deal.

JMHO.

alanint · 09-13-2015, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

You are putting us in a tough spot here. Your concerns about the finish are significant, and a pitch black finish doesn't seem right to me on any that I have seen. There were a lot of variations in finish in those days, some thin, and some purple-ish, but pitch black?
I suggest that you request photo privileges before committing, OR get a 5 day inspection privilege so that we can give it a better sniff test.
And $2800 for that gun seems to me to be on the VERY high end of the market. I see them listed for that much but doubt that they really bring it.
dju

I would expect another matching magazine or maybe a holster, non matching mag and tool rig for that price.

CAP Black · 09-13-2015, 12:39 PM

Olle:

No one mentioned when the strawing went away. You need to check that and then you will remember.
Jack

Sergio Natali · 09-13-2015, 01:06 PM

If I'm not wrong strawing went away around mid 1937, here we are talking about a 1939 42 code without any strawed parts.

Sergio

Olle · 09-13-2015, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfid

Olle,
in case it may be useful ...
maybe like this restored one - which looks all blackish on my screen ?
http://www.lugercollector.com/_490_m...s42_luger_1939
or
this S/42 same year
http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/3464
or
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...1761BW4142.htm
and several more with a search like
https://www.google.com/imghp?hl=en&t...ed=0CAQQqi4oAg
and use search like "luger 42 1939" or "luger code 42 1939"

search seems to find various closed auctions as well as the websites

good luck in the quest !
Bill

Yes, it does have the same appearance as in those links. I'm not familiar with the Luger's wartime finishes at all, but it doesn't look like, for example, the clearly blue colored bluing on other guns from the same period. I can spot a refinished P.38 from 100 yards away, but I simply haven't seen enough wartime Lugers in person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Ollie,
it does not sound like you really "want" this example in trade. If you have any questions about
it- my advice is "don't do it". The price sounds very high, should be a complete rig to be worth anything like $2800, IMO.

Now it it is something you really like, do some more checking, get good pictures or a
5 day "un-swap" deal.

JMHO.

You're probably right. He wants my gun, and he was the one suggesting the 42 as a trade. All I want is a nice, original and representative Luger for my collection.

I think I'll take a step back and think about it. I'm not in a hurry getting rid of my gun, so I'll just ask him what else he's got to trade with.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-13-2015, 03:43 PM

I'm not in a hurry getting rid of my gun, out of idle curiosity what are you trading? A 1939 Mauser is a fairly common Luger. 90-to even 95%? Not in the $2800 level. Matching mag helps but it HAS to be genuine. Many are not. If he is serious about your pistol..get hold of his $2800 cash and free yourself to pursue any Luger on the market in that price range. Let him sell his Luger. I think you might be pleasantly surprised to see what $2800 would buy you.

Olle · 09-13-2015, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

I'm not in a hurry getting rid of my gun, out of idle curiosity what are you trading? A 1939 Mauser is a fairly common Luger. 90-to even 95%? Not in the $2800 level. Matching mag helps but it HAS to be genuine. Many are not. If he is serious about your pistol..get hold of his $2800 cash and free yourself to pursue any Luger on the market in that price range. Let him sell his Luger. I think you might be pleasantly surprised to see what $2800 would buy you.

I would rather have cash, for sure. The problem is that he fell deeply in love with my Navy Luger build, and we both know that I can never get my money out of it if we can't trade on something he doesn't have much money in. Quite honestly, I don't think I can even get close to that money if I sell it on the open market, so trading with him should hopefully be a win-win (even if I take the 42, I would think). The 42 was just one he happened to have on the table at a gun show yesterday, so I'll probably give him a call and ask him to line up a few more trade option.

I know he as a Bergmann-Bayard and a 1905 Steyr-Mannlicher, would love to get my hands on one of those...

DonVoigt · 09-13-2015, 04:57 PM

That helps understand the "situation", kind of like trading a dog for two cats.

You can probably buy his luger for $1500-1800 if you are patient and work at it, not his actually but another like it.

I saw several that would suffice for your wants in that price range this weekend.

I do believe he has it way overpriced , just in case someone has an equally overpriced trade!

Your idea to step back and wait for his next move is a good plan, IMO.

I'll have to look at your Navy again, but IIRC, it is a better item than a 4" common Mauser, would be to me.

DavidJayUden · 09-13-2015, 05:01 PM

And remember that the Russians used a pitch black dip on their captured guns after the war.
dju

alvin · 09-13-2015, 06:15 PM

If I think of it, there is no need to trade one Luger with another Luger unless you're a dedicated Luger collector. Trading for Bergmann and Steyr would make more sense. If value is very off, asking some form of compensation.

Sergio Natali · 09-14-2015, 03:50 AM

I'll have to look at your Navy again, but IIRC, it is a better item than a 4" common Mauser, would be to me

I agree with Don, but of course it depends also on the actual state of your Navy.

Rgds

Sergio

sheepherder · 09-14-2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

And remember that the Russians used a pitch black dip on their captured guns after the war.
dju

I keep coming across this description of the VoPo/RC refurbished Lugers & P-38s; that they have a 'pitch' [tar] like finish. My VoPo/RC P-38 has an unbuffed dipped black finish that is not thick at all, nor is it unattractive.

I've looked at others at local shows and none had a thick 'tar' finish to them.

Perhaps some were dipped in a tar-like substance, but not all were.

Anyway, $2800 in cash would be my choice. If he wants it bad enough, let him take a cash advance against his credit card and pay you the cash. That is my plan, should I find my 'dream' pistol.

DonVoigt · 09-14-2015, 10:11 AM

I do believe in this case he meant "pitch black" to mean just a solid, non reflective, deep black color- not connected to Pitch as in
pine tar or similar.

Your description of RC finish is spot on; i.e. blued using hot salt method by degreasing only- no surface prep at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I keep coming across this description of the VoPo/RC refurbished Lugers & P-38s; that they have a 'pitch' [tar] like finish. My VoPo/RC P-38 has an unbuffed dipped black finish that is not thick at all, nor is it unattractive.

I've looked at others at local shows and none had a thick 'tar' finish to them.

Perhaps some were dipped in a tar-like substance, but not all were.

Anyway, $2800 in cash would be my choice. If he wants it bad enough, let him take a cash advance against his credit card and pay you the cash. That is my plan, should I find my 'dream' pistol.

Olle · 09-14-2015, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

If I think of it, there is no need to trade one Luger with another Luger unless you're a dedicated Luger collector. Trading for Bergmann and Steyr would make more sense. If value is very off, asking some form of compensation.

I'm not a dedicated Luger collector at all. My main interest is WWI and WWII handguns, and I would just like to have one all-matching and correct Luger in my collection. I would rather have a nice, common variation than a rare gun in lesser condition, and this may not be it. I could even go with a commercial, if price and condition justify it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I do believe in this case he meant "pitch black" to mean just a solid, non reflective, deep black color- not connected to Pitch as in
pine tar or similar.

Your description of RC finish is spot on; i.e. blued using hot salt method by degreasing only- no surface prep at all.

When I say "pitch black", I'm referring to the color only. You will normally see a blue hue in older hot bluing (Colt's "Royal Blue" from the '50s and '60s is one good example), but this one is black. The color is more like the modern day bluing, that dead black you get with, for example, Oxynate and other products.

The 42 does have a gloss to it, and the barrel seems to be glossier than the rest. However, this is what I see on the guns in the links as well. It does resemble the "Russian dip" in a way, but not quite the same.

09-12-2015, 09:22 PM	#1
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Need help with a trade, 1939 42 code I'm thinking about trading with a guy, and I need the forum expert's help. He's interested in one of my guns, and we have established a trade value around $2,500. He offered and even trade on his 1939 42 code 9mm, at least 90% (maybe 95%), all matching including one matching magazine. He has it for sale right now, asking $2,800. So first of all, is his gun in the ballpark? I realize that I should have taken pictures, but again: Looking for a ballpark value. Also, the finish looks almost pitch black, with the barrel being glossy without any tool marks. The gun looks nice and crisp overall, no signs of refinish etc, but it does not have a blue tint to it. The seller is an experienced Luger collector and I trust his judgement. but with this kind of money involved I'm not taking any chances. I have compared with a few pictures I found here on the forum, and it looks like the color actually is correct, like a deep salt blue and no strawed small parts. Just want to make sure. So what would you guys say? Thumbs up or down?

09-13-2015, 08:10 AM	#5
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Real pitch black hasn't got much sense to me, unless the gun was blued maybe in the past (?). Without close and detailed pictures it's almost impossible to assert anything reliable. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-13-2015, 01:06 PM	#9
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	If I'm not wrong strawing went away around mid 1937, here we are talking about a 1939 42 code without any strawed parts. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-13-2015, 03:43 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,771 Thanks: 4,922 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,434 Posts	I'm not in a hurry getting rid of my gun, out of idle curiosity what are you trading? A 1939 Mauser is a fairly common Luger. 90-to even 95%? Not in the $2800 level. Matching mag helps but it HAS to be genuine. Many are not. If he is serious about your pistol..get hold of his $2800 cash and free yourself to pursue any Luger on the market in that price range. Let him sell his Luger. I think you might be pleasantly surprised to see what $2800 would buy you. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-14-2015, 03:50 AM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I'll have to look at your Navy again, but IIRC, it is a better item than a 4" common Mauser, would be to me I agree with Don, but of course it depends also on the actual state of your Navy. Rgds Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

09-12-2015, 09:57 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	You are putting us in a tough spot here. Your concerns about the finish are significant, and a pitch black finish doesn't seem right to me on any that I have seen. There were a lot of variations in finish in those days, some thin, and some purple-ish, but pitch black? I suggest that you request photo privileges before committing, OR get a 5 day inspection privilege so that we can give it a better sniff test. And $2800 for that gun seems to me to be on the VERY high end of the market. I see them listed for that much but doubt that they really bring it. dju

09-13-2015, 12:56 AM	#3
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Olle, in case it may be useful ... maybe like this restored one - which looks all blackish on my screen ? http://www.lugercollector.com/_490_m...s42_luger_1939 or this S/42 same year http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/52/lid/3464 or http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...1761BW4142.htm and several more with a search like https://www.google.com/imghp?hl=en&t...ed=0CAQQqi4oAg and use search like "luger 42 1939" or "luger code 42 1939" search seems to find various closed auctions as well as the websites good luck in the quest ! Bill

09-13-2015, 07:20 AM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	3-day or 5-day inspection is not optional. It's a must. Some guns look good on pictures, but in hand, it's easy to tell issues in 5 minutes. Some guns has suspicious spots, but turned out being picture issue while looking in hand. With 3-day, or 5-day, the risk is limited on the shipping. Shipping is expensive these days, but comparing with gun value, still nothing. Asking more pictures to evaluate it worth the shipping cost related risk or not. Not the gun value risk. Although we are practicing our arguing capability on forums, but for gun transaction, prefer a no-question-asked returning policy. And, good sellers should have no problem with that. Of course, for politeness, still list the issues that you found. But that should be optional.

09-13-2015, 10:25 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Ollie, it does not sound like you really "want" this example in trade. If you have any questions about it- my advice is "don't do it". The price sounds very high, should be a complete rig to be worth anything like $2800, IMO. Now it it is something you really like, do some more checking, get good pictures or a 5 day "un-swap" deal. JMHO.

09-13-2015, 12:39 PM	#8
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	Olle: No one mentioned when the strawing went away. You need to check that and then you will remember. Jack

09-13-2015, 04:57 PM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	That helps understand the "situation", kind of like trading a dog for two cats. You can probably buy his luger for $1500-1800 if you are patient and work at it, not his actually but another like it. I saw several that would suffice for your wants in that price range this weekend. I do believe he has it way overpriced , just in case someone has an equally overpriced trade! Your idea to step back and wait for his next move is a good plan, IMO. I'll have to look at your Navy again, but IIRC, it is a better item than a 4" common Mauser, would be to me.

09-13-2015, 05:01 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	And remember that the Russians used a pitch black dip on their captured guns after the war. dju

09-13-2015, 06:15 PM	#15
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	If I think of it, there is no need to trade one Luger with another Luger unless you're a dedicated Luger collector. Trading for Bergmann and Steyr would make more sense. If value is very off, asking some form of compensation.