1917 'Hold Open'???

barr · 04-04-2003, 07:20 PM

I was reading the posts to the 1917 Artillery and noticed the discussion of a 'hold open'. Is this some means of holding the bolt back? I know on my 1917 DWM it will stay open with the magazine is in, but not when it is out. Is there some way to hold the bolt open with the mag. out?
Just trying to fill in the gaps. Thanks, barr.

Ron Wood · 04-04-2003, 07:49 PM

The hold open is activated by the magazine. You can not cause the bolt to remain open if there is no magazine present. Insert an empty magazine and open the bolt and it will remain open if the hold open is working correctly. You may then remove the magazine and the bolt will remain open until you pull back slightly on the toggles to release it. Then, with the magazine still removed, if you hold the trigger while you slowly lower the toggle (never do this when loaded magazine is inserted!), you will close the bolt without cocking the firing pin. Therefore there is no strain on the firing pin spring and no danger of "dry firing" and possibly damaging the firing pin.

John Sabato · 04-07-2003, 11:30 AM

Hey Ron, In my early days (a long time ago as you know) I was able to open the toggle and raise the holdopen device with a finger when no magazine was immediately available...

But don't try this at home kids... it is NOT recommended because I also remember the number of times that it wasn't as secure as I had hoped and the pain caused by the extractor as it tried to engage my finger when the bolt closed unexpectedly... OUCH!

Dwight Gruber · 04-07-2003, 12:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by John Sabato:
Hey Ron, In my early days (a long time ago as you know) I was able to open the toggle and raise the holdopen device with a finger when no magazine was immediately available...

But don't try this at home kids... it is NOT recommended because I also remember the number of times that it wasn't as secure as I had hoped and the pain caused by the extractor as it tried to engage my finger when the bolt closed unexpectedly... OUCH! <hr /></blockquote>Kind of like trying to close the bolt of a Broomhandle Mauser with an empty magazine...

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 04-07-2003, 12:11 PM

Hello Barr,

Here is a close-up photo of the hold-open device you have inquired :

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 04-07-2003, 10:18 PM

How many remember the M-1 Thumb from the Inspection Arms as prescribed in FM 22-5?
Tom A.

AGE · 04-08-2003, 12:40 AM

Tom,

Yes I remember it well everytime I approach my own M1. Like two porcupines making love, I'm very very careful.

John Sabato · 04-09-2003, 12:12 PM

Tom, I could never get my thumb in between the frame rails of a Luger... but found that it fit very well between the boltface of my M-1 rifle and the rear of the chamber during ROTC formations in 1965... boy was that a LONG time ago! I can still see the scar. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

jamese · 04-10-2003, 09:46 AM

Ron,
Thanks for the info,
I've been using the plastic dummy rounds to de-**** the firing pinÃ¢?Â¦Ã¢?Â¦..hum, make me wonder whos the real dummy....

"if you hold the trigger while you slowly lower the toggle (never do this when loaded magazine is inserted!), you will close the bolt without cocking the firing pin"

04-04-2003, 07:20 PM	#1
barr User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1917 'Hold Open'??? I was reading the posts to the 1917 Artillery and noticed the discussion of a 'hold open'. Is this some means of holding the bolt back? I know on my 1917 DWM it will stay open with the magazine is in, but not when it is out. Is there some way to hold the bolt open with the mag. out? Just trying to fill in the gaps. Thanks, barr.

04-04-2003, 07:49 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	The hold open is activated by the magazine. You can not cause the bolt to remain open if there is no magazine present. Insert an empty magazine and open the bolt and it will remain open if the hold open is working correctly. You may then remove the magazine and the bolt will remain open until you pull back slightly on the toggles to release it. Then, with the magazine still removed, if you hold the trigger while you slowly lower the toggle (never do this when loaded magazine is inserted!), you will close the bolt without cocking the firing pin. Therefore there is no strain on the firing pin spring and no danger of "dry firing" and possibly damaging the firing pin. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-07-2003, 11:30 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Hey Ron, In my early days (a long time ago as you know) I was able to open the toggle and raise the holdopen device with a finger when no magazine was immediately available... But don't try this at home kids... it is NOT recommended because I also remember the number of times that it wasn't as secure as I had hoped and the pain caused by the extractor as it tried to engage my finger when the bolt closed unexpectedly... OUCH! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-07-2003, 12:04 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John Sabato: <strong>Hey Ron, In my early days (a long time ago as you know) I was able to open the toggle and raise the holdopen device with a finger when no magazine was immediately available... But don't try this at home kids... it is NOT recommended because I also remember the number of times that it wasn't as secure as I had hoped and the pain caused by the extractor as it tried to engage my finger when the bolt closed unexpectedly... OUCH! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Kind of like trying to close the bolt of a Broomhandle Mauser with an empty magazine... --Dwight

04-08-2003, 12:40 AM	#7
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, Yes I remember it well everytime I approach my own M1. Like two porcupines making love, I'm very very careful. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

04-07-2003, 12:11 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Barr, Here is a close-up photo of the hold-open device you have inquired : Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-07-2003, 10:18 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	How many remember the M-1 Thumb from the Inspection Arms as prescribed in FM 22-5? Tom A.

04-09-2003, 12:12 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Tom, I could never get my thumb in between the frame rails of a Luger... but found that it fit very well between the boltface of my M-1 rifle and the rear of the chamber during ROTC formations in 1965... boy was that a LONG time ago! I can still see the scar. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-10-2003, 09:46 AM	#9
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Ron, Thanks for the info, I've been using the plastic dummy rounds to de-**** the firing pinÃ¢?Â¦Ã¢?Â¦..hum, make me wonder whos the real dummy.... "if you hold the trigger while you slowly lower the toggle (never do this when loaded magazine is inserted!), you will close the bolt without cocking the firing pin" __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception