Units Markings on 1914 DWM Artillery

Big Norm · 11-04-2005, 04:23 PM

I just got a 1914 DWM artillery Luger with unit markings of 67.R.M.G.97. on the front grip strap. Does anyone know what this marking stands for? Any historical battle information that this unit was involved in? I think that the M.G stands for machine gun unit. But does the capital "R" stand for reserve or would a small "r" represent a reserve unit?
Big Norm

Ron Smith · 11-04-2005, 05:39 PM

Hi Norm,

Reserve is indicated by a script or scrolled R Regiment is R

67= 67th Infantry Regiment
R= Regiment
M.G.= Machinegun Company
97= weapon Number

The 67th Regiment was part of the 34th Division, 5th Army.

1914 - Meuse

1915 - Argonne, 34th Div. lost 56 Officers and 2723 men in heavy fighting.

1916 - Verdun ,67th Reg. lost an entire coompany.

1917 - Argonne, Champagne, more heavy losses 1/3 of a Regiment.

1918 - Laon, lost 1000 men.

Aisne, Lost 300 captured.

St Quentin

Guise, Lost 700 captured

By the end of the war there were only 1000 men in the Div. It was considered one of the best 2nd class Divisions. The 34th was an assault Div. always on the attack.

Ron

Big Norm · 11-07-2005, 05:08 AM

Ron,
thank you ever so much for your help and information. I thought that I had read something about reserve units having a different 'R' in their unit markings. I just didn't know where I had read it. But my 'R' is just a capital 'R' in the same style as the 'M.G.' and that threw me.

Your information gives me some real good history as to what this gun went through. The condition of the gun also verifies that its seen some heavy duty fighting. (Lostsa dents and bruises on it). But that makes it even more interesting to me. Minty guns always make me nervous. This gun is "all there" - except possibly for the otherwise original grips. I hope that my Christmas present to myself will be a digital camera so you can see what I mean. You made this gun even more interesting. Thank you again.
Big Norm

Ron Smith · 11-07-2005, 09:37 AM

Hi Norm,

You're welcome. It's an uncontrolable passion. I am addicted to unit marks. By no means an expert , and always learning more. Sometimes the hard way.

I would like to see potos of some of you collection. It sounds interesting.

Ron

Big Norm · 11-07-2005, 12:42 PM

Ron,
S-H-H-H!! Ed Tinker might be watching. He keeps gettin on me for not having a digital camera. I hope to have enough money by Christmas to get one. In the meantime, I had an IRS audit, the cost of this gun and a sick dog that needed an operation. Plus, deer seaon in Michigan opens this month. So I am just plain out of cash for a while. But I will be AWOL from the forum for a couple of weeks. But I will be getting a camera sometime soon. You know how much I love to brag.
Big Norm

Ron Smith · 11-07-2005, 03:19 PM

Good Luck on your hunt. I got to go one day this season and then came down with the flu. If it weren't for bad luck....

Big Norm · 11-07-2005, 08:36 PM

Ron,
thank you for your well wishes on my hunt. I would like to push the envelope a little on my unit marks. I believe that various units were all pulled from people in the same region, town or city. In WW1, German soldiers were often afraid to look like cowards or to do something wrong because it would get back to their families. My question is: Do you know what city, region or town that the guys in this unit came from? If you know, I promise to return the cork to your lunch (Hee! Hee!)
Big Norm

Edward Tinker · 11-07-2005, 10:05 PM

Norm, you said LAST Christmas you were gonna buy a digital camera!

I have more than one digital camera, just send me 3 lugers at a time and I'll take pictures for you. Turn-around takes about a year for each gun

Big Norm · 11-08-2005, 06:23 AM

Ed,
I am still running on LAST Christmas time schedule or that model year. The new model year for Christmas won't begin until Dec 25, 2005. But like all stores in America I begin advertising my "brag about" Lugers for the NEXT Christmas on Dec 26th. So I still have time to comply with my promise to you from Christmas, Dec 2004. So don't rush me.

Big Norm

Ron Smith · 11-08-2005, 10:15 AM

Norm,

The unit originated in the Lorraine District, but due to recruiting problems(I guess they all went to Canada), the Division was made up of mostly Westphalians.

Source: Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army.

Norm, I got my camera on sale. The Salvation Army outlet.

Ron

Big Norm · 11-08-2005, 09:15 PM

Ron,
thank you again for the information. In my book, you are right up there with JohnD on HK's and TomA on Navies. Thats pretty rare air up there. But now you are competing with my personal all time favorite, Ron Wood. I am really pushing the envelope on this one, but I didn't expect anyone to go as far as you have, so here goes...

What was the rank and the name of the first person issued this gun? I am sure that he didn't migrate to Canada. Germans love their beer even more than Australians do. And German beer is better than Canadian beer.

If you get help from Mauro, it still counts.

While I love and your list and greatly appreciate what you have already given me, I wonder about the spelling of the names of some of the battles. I can't read your list because this is a corrected post, but I think tht one name that you gave was Laon. Could that be Leon or Leone? Maybe Meuse is spelled wrong too. It seems like I read that big battles were fought in both those locals.

I like your three eyed camera. Personally, I prefer the chocolate kind of brownie with all the walnuts in them.

Thank you again,
Big Norm

George Anderson · 11-09-2005, 06:30 AM

Your both wrong. Leon was the night porter at the Meuse Arms Hotel in Besanscon. Leon's mother also worked there in the kitchen. The night porter's primary responsibility was to collect and empty the thunder mugs (chamber pots) left outside the hotel room doors each morning by the guests. Leon's mother would later wash them out in the kitchen sink before starting breakfast for the guests.

Ron Smith · 11-09-2005, 09:17 AM

Norm,

It's very possible that they are typos. My typing skills are about a half notch above Ed's. It is Leon.

I am flattered that you place me in such esteemed company, but I'm just a piker when it comes to these well studied and knowledgable members. I just started down this road about 2 years ago. Just a sophmore in Luger college.

I would'nt even attempt to compare to Ron Wood ,when it comes to general Luger knowlege. I have listened to Ron discuss Lugers with Jan Still. I was mezmerized by the conversation.

The soldiers name was Tyrone Katzenjammer. He was an Untzertatterpeeler 1st class, for the elite Schtopemfromfloppin' unit.

Geo,

I believe you're confusing Leon for his brother Leroy..... Their mother was known for her omlettes.

Dwight Gruber · 11-09-2005, 11:28 AM

Norm,

If I could trouble you for a detail, what is the serial number of this LP08, and does it have a spur or straight-cut recoil spring well? Contact me off-forum if preferred, dwightg@pacifier.com Thanks much

--Dwight

Big Norm · 12-01-2005, 12:00 PM

Ron,
I just did a Google on Laon, France. There is such a place. Since all the battles that you mentioned were in France, I will assume that your spelling is correct. I also talked to a guy from Germany and he confirmed that the spelling on all the other battle cities were also correct. Thank you again for your help.
Big Norm

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Smith
Norm,

It's very possible that they are typos. My typing skills are about a half notch above Ed's.

oh no, I use the spelceker thingy, so I no thet my speling is batter!

ed

Ron Smith · 12-01-2005, 10:35 PM

Norm, Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Ed, Spiel chekor dodnt werk on propper naims.

11-04-2005, 04:23 PM	#1
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Units Markings on 1914 DWM Artillery I just got a 1914 DWM artillery Luger with unit markings of 67.R.M.G.97. on the front grip strap. Does anyone know what this marking stands for? Any historical battle information that this unit was involved in? I think that the M.G stands for machine gun unit. But does the capital "R" stand for reserve or would a small "r" represent a reserve unit? Big Norm

11-04-2005, 05:39 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Norm, Reserve is indicated by a script or scrolled R Regiment is R 67= 67th Infantry Regiment R= Regiment M.G.= Machinegun Company 97= weapon Number The 67th Regiment was part of the 34th Division, 5th Army. 1914 - Meuse 1915 - Argonne, 34th Div. lost 56 Officers and 2723 men in heavy fighting. 1916 - Verdun ,67th Reg. lost an entire coompany. 1917 - Argonne, Champagne, more heavy losses 1/3 of a Regiment. 1918 - Laon, lost 1000 men. Aisne, Lost 300 captured. St Quentin Guise, Lost 700 captured By the end of the war there were only 1000 men in the Div. It was considered one of the best 2nd class Divisions. The 34th was an assault Div. always on the attack. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-07-2005, 09:37 AM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Norm, You're welcome. It's an uncontrolable passion. I am addicted to unit marks. By no means an expert , and always learning more. Sometimes the hard way. I would like to see potos of some of you collection. It sounds interesting. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-07-2005, 03:19 PM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Good Luck on your hunt. I got to go one day this season and then came down with the flu. If it weren't for bad luck.... __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-07-2005, 10:05 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Norm, you said LAST Christmas you were gonna buy a digital camera! I have more than one digital camera, just send me 3 lugers at a time and I'll take pictures for you. Turn-around takes about a year for each gun __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-07-2005, 05:08 AM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, thank you ever so much for your help and information. I thought that I had read something about reserve units having a different 'R' in their unit markings. I just didn't know where I had read it. But my 'R' is just a capital 'R' in the same style as the 'M.G.' and that threw me. Your information gives me some real good history as to what this gun went through. The condition of the gun also verifies that its seen some heavy duty fighting. (Lostsa dents and bruises on it). But that makes it even more interesting to me. Minty guns always make me nervous. This gun is "all there" - except possibly for the otherwise original grips. I hope that my Christmas present to myself will be a digital camera so you can see what I mean. You made this gun even more interesting. Thank you again. Big Norm

11-07-2005, 12:42 PM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, S-H-H-H!! Ed Tinker might be watching. He keeps gettin on me for not having a digital camera. I hope to have enough money by Christmas to get one. In the meantime, I had an IRS audit, the cost of this gun and a sick dog that needed an operation. Plus, deer seaon in Michigan opens this month. So I am just plain out of cash for a while. But I will be AWOL from the forum for a couple of weeks. But I will be getting a camera sometime soon. You know how much I love to brag. Big Norm

11-07-2005, 08:36 PM	#7
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, thank you for your well wishes on my hunt. I would like to push the envelope a little on my unit marks. I believe that various units were all pulled from people in the same region, town or city. In WW1, German soldiers were often afraid to look like cowards or to do something wrong because it would get back to their families. My question is: Do you know what city, region or town that the guys in this unit came from? If you know, I promise to return the cork to your lunch (Hee! Hee!) Big Norm

11-08-2005, 06:23 AM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ed, I am still running on LAST Christmas time schedule or that model year. The new model year for Christmas won't begin until Dec 25, 2005. But like all stores in America I begin advertising my "brag about" Lugers for the NEXT Christmas on Dec 26th. So I still have time to comply with my promise to you from Christmas, Dec 2004. So don't rush me. Big Norm

11-08-2005, 10:15 AM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Norm, The unit originated in the Lorraine District, but due to recruiting problems(I guess they all went to Canada), the Division was made up of mostly Westphalians. Source: Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army. Norm, I got my camera on sale. The Salvation Army outlet. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-08-2005, 09:15 PM	#11
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, thank you again for the information. In my book, you are right up there with JohnD on HK's and TomA on Navies. Thats pretty rare air up there. But now you are competing with my personal all time favorite, Ron Wood. I am really pushing the envelope on this one, but I didn't expect anyone to go as far as you have, so here goes... What was the rank and the name of the first person issued this gun? I am sure that he didn't migrate to Canada. Germans love their beer even more than Australians do. And German beer is better than Canadian beer. If you get help from Mauro, it still counts. While I love and your list and greatly appreciate what you have already given me, I wonder about the spelling of the names of some of the battles. I can't read your list because this is a corrected post, but I think tht one name that you gave was Laon. Could that be Leon or Leone? Maybe Meuse is spelled wrong too. It seems like I read that big battles were fought in both those locals. I like your three eyed camera. Personally, I prefer the chocolate kind of brownie with all the walnuts in them. Thank you again, Big Norm

11-09-2005, 06:30 AM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Your both wrong. Leon was the night porter at the Meuse Arms Hotel in Besanscon. Leon's mother also worked there in the kitchen. The night porter's primary responsibility was to collect and empty the thunder mugs (chamber pots) left outside the hotel room doors each morning by the guests. Leon's mother would later wash them out in the kitchen sink before starting breakfast for the guests.

11-09-2005, 09:17 AM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Norm, It's very possible that they are typos. My typing skills are about a half notch above Ed's. It is Leon. I am flattered that you place me in such esteemed company, but I'm just a piker when it comes to these well studied and knowledgable members. I just started down this road about 2 years ago. Just a sophmore in Luger college. I would'nt even attempt to compare to Ron Wood ,when it comes to general Luger knowlege. I have listened to Ron discuss Lugers with Jan Still. I was mezmerized by the conversation. The soldiers name was Tyrone Katzenjammer. He was an Untzertatterpeeler 1st class, for the elite Schtopemfromfloppin' unit. Geo, I believe you're confusing Leon for his brother Leroy..... Their mother was known for her omlettes. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-09-2005, 11:28 AM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Norm, If I could trouble you for a detail, what is the serial number of this LP08, and does it have a spur or straight-cut recoil spring well? Contact me off-forum if preferred, dwightg@pacifier.com Thanks much --Dwight

12-01-2005, 12:00 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ron, I just did a Google on Laon, France. There is such a place. Since all the battles that you mentioned were in France, I will assume that your spelling is correct. I also talked to a guy from Germany and he confirmed that the spelling on all the other battle cities were also correct. Thank you again for your help. Big Norm

12-01-2005, 10:35 PM	#17
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Norm, Thanks for the vote of confidence. Ed, Spiel chekor dodnt werk on propper naims. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...