code 42 stampingsneeds decyphered

kritter · 06-10-2015, 09:23 AM

checking out this one at a local shop, code 42 I get but all this crazy stampings have me lost..
any ideas...

thanks

mrerick · 06-10-2015, 09:44 AM

Looks to me like someone personalized a Luger...

sheepherder · 06-10-2015, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Looks to me like someone personalized a Luger...

"Practiced" would be my WAG...

Sergio Natali · 06-10-2015, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Looks to me like someone personalized a Luger...

Sure they have.

Sergio

rhuff · 06-10-2015, 02:44 PM

That is a new one to me.

Mac Cat · 06-10-2015, 03:06 PM

Russian capture ?

I'll bet it's got some other stamps on the frame front and possibly the toggle.
Got any more photos?

Sergio Natali · 06-10-2015, 03:43 PM

Mac Cat

I've seen many "Russian capture" lugers but none with all those stampings, as if as somebody just tested his stamp punches.

Sergio

mrerick · 06-10-2015, 07:18 PM

Looks like someone wanted to obliterate the swastikas and then got carried away with themselves... Oh well. Another one bites the dust...

alanint · 06-10-2015, 11:19 PM

Unless these are clues to a secret treasure map of buried Nazi gold?

Edward Tinker · 06-10-2015, 11:48 PM

I'd like some close ups, clear of them?

But it sure looks like stamps from assorted eras, so I would agree that it is a test piece by someone playing...

kritter · 06-11-2015, 04:41 PM

Working doubles will try to get more photos friday

danielsand · 06-12-2015, 01:52 PM

I've seen something like this "55ZWO3" long time ago in Poland (Warsaw). The owner told me at that time, that his pistol was used by his brother in the "Warsaw Uprising" (It was NOT on the Parabellum, but on P38!!), and the underground Polish fighters marked their weapons in this way (destroying Nazi markings), and stamping "55ZWO3" on them. He told me what this marking meant, but since it's been about 45 years since I've seen it.........I forgot.

Maybe someone familiar with that part of Polish history can chime in.

Edited to add (cause I am as curious as a cat!):

OK,.......made a call to Poland, where the son of the guy I met back in 1971, still has this P38 in his possession. He says that "ZW" stands for "Zwiazek Walki", or loosely translated "Armed Struggle". Not sure what is "55", or "03" (not even sure if it's letter "O", or zero!). He thinks "ZERO THREE" might be a code for the unit, and he swears that his pistol was marked by one of several underground Polish factories, that produced (from scratch) weapons throughout Nazi occupation, and restamped the captured ones.

So,.......few minutes later, he calls me back and tells me this:

A fellow by the name Sypniewski, formed an underground factory called "Factory Number 5" in Warsaw in 1943. Factory produced several hundred weapons (and purportedly restamped captured ones!) until April 1944, when it was raided by Gestapo, and all workers were tortured to death. The main entity these weapons were intended for was (hold your breath!)...."Zwiazek Walki Zbrojnej" ("Armed Struggle Union"), which was later renamed into "Armia Krajowa" ) or "Home Army".

I bet someone with a lot of time on hand can decipher these markings completely, and they ARE not "personalization", "getting carried away with stamps', or such. We are looking at a genuine piece of history here, and a RARE one at that!

A little more info never hurts.

I apologize for re-editing this so many times,....but he just called back and apologized for the previous inaccurate info. "Factory Number Five" was NOT in Warsaw, but in Krakow! I'm sure if the OP wants to "dig" deeper, all kinds of info should be available in Krakow archives. At least now you have a good point to start.

danielsand · 06-12-2015, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Looks like someone wanted to obliterate the swastikas and then got carried away with themselves... Oh well. Another one bites the dust...

Not so fast! This might turn out to be VERY RARE, and VERY VALUABLE.

kritter · 06-12-2015, 11:43 PM

WOW.. danielsand , that make it a little more interesting.. and something I'm going to follow up on..
and here's more photos..

ithacaartist · 06-12-2015, 11:57 PM

Daniel,

Thank you for the hard work. This is most interesting, and a good lesson in history, as well as a cautionary tale--something to do with hasty conclusions!

danielsand · 06-13-2015, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Daniel,

Thank you for the hard work. This is most interesting, and a good lesson in history, as well as a cautionary tale--something to do with hasty conclusions!

You are welcome, although it was not hard at all. Just one of those "dejavu" moments, because I did see a marking like that many years ago. I have lived all over the world, traveled the rest, and have contacts in MANY places. "Viber" is a good way to stay in touch with friends, and it doesn't cost anything to call.

What was surprising to me is that none of YOU (diehard, dyedinthewool, Parabellum collectors) never saw a weapon marked like that. That can mean only one thing,......this one pictured in the thread IS probably the ONLY ONE Stateside! And who knows if there is another one out in the world, that survived the war.

Since I am a novice when it comes to P08 (and not a collector), I have no idea if this marking/rarity makes this piece more valuable or not. I'm sure it would mean a lot to any surviving family of the Polish underground fighters, or maybe even a museum in Krakow (since that's when it was marked back in 1944).

I am glad that I was able to contribute to the general knowledge of this forum, in this small way.

alanint · 06-13-2015, 11:37 AM

As an added note. The 42 chamber date is also non-standard.

jonnyc · 06-20-2015, 09:25 AM

Anything more on the above?

Mac Cat · 06-20-2015, 10:23 AM

Thanks for the other photos, Kritter ! That helps a lot.

06-10-2015, 09:23 AM	#1
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	code 42 stampingsneeds decyphered checking out this one at a local shop, code 42 I get but all this crazy stampings have me lost.. any ideas... thanks

06-10-2015, 09:44 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Looks to me like someone personalized a Luger... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-10-2015, 03:43 PM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Mac Cat I've seen many "Russian capture" lugers but none with all those stampings, as if as somebody just tested his stamp punches. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

06-10-2015, 07:18 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Looks like someone wanted to obliterate the swastikas and then got carried away with themselves... Oh well. Another one bites the dust... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-12-2015, 01:52 PM	#12
danielsand User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: SoCal Posts: 137 Thanks: 52 Thanked 100 Times in 43 Posts	I've seen something like this "55ZWO3" long time ago in Poland (Warsaw). The owner told me at that time, that his pistol was used by his brother in the "Warsaw Uprising" (It was NOT on the Parabellum, but on P38!!), and the underground Polish fighters marked their weapons in this way (destroying Nazi markings), and stamping "55ZWO3" on them. He told me what this marking meant, but since it's been about 45 years since I've seen it.........I forgot. Maybe someone familiar with that part of Polish history can chime in. Edited to add (cause I am as curious as a cat!): OK,.......made a call to Poland, where the son of the guy I met back in 1971, still has this P38 in his possession. He says that "ZW" stands for "Zwiazek Walki", or loosely translated "Armed Struggle". Not sure what is "55", or "03" (not even sure if it's letter "O", or zero!). He thinks "ZERO THREE" might be a code for the unit, and he swears that his pistol was marked by one of several underground Polish factories, that produced (from scratch) weapons throughout Nazi occupation, and restamped the captured ones. So,.......few minutes later, he calls me back and tells me this: A fellow by the name Sypniewski, formed an underground factory called "Factory Number 5" in Warsaw in 1943. Factory produced several hundred weapons (and purportedly restamped captured ones!) until April 1944, when it was raided by Gestapo, and all workers were tortured to death. The main entity these weapons were intended for was (hold your breath!)...."Zwiazek Walki Zbrojnej" ("Armed Struggle Union"), which was later renamed into "Armia Krajowa" ) or "Home Army". I bet someone with a lot of time on hand can decipher these markings completely, and they ARE not "personalization", "getting carried away with stamps', or such. We are looking at a genuine piece of history here, and a RARE one at that! A little more info never hurts. I apologize for re-editing this so many times,....but he just called back and apologized for the previous inaccurate info. "Factory Number Five" was NOT in Warsaw, but in Krakow! I'm sure if the OP wants to "dig" deeper, all kinds of info should be available in Krakow archives. At least now you have a good point to start. Last edited by danielsand; 06-12-2015 at 03:06 PM.

06-10-2015, 02:44 PM	#5
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	That is a new one to me.

06-10-2015, 03:06 PM	#6
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 728 Thanks: 2,092 Thanked 606 Times in 327 Posts	Russian capture ? I'll bet it's got some other stamps on the frame front and possibly the toggle. Got any more photos?

06-10-2015, 11:19 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Unless these are clues to a secret treasure map of buried Nazi gold?

06-10-2015, 11:48 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I'd like some close ups, clear of them? But it sure looks like stamps from assorted eras, so I would agree that it is a test piece by someone playing...

06-11-2015, 04:41 PM	#11
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Working doubles will try to get more photos friday

06-12-2015, 11:43 PM	#14
kritter User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: NE OHIO Posts: 19 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	WOW.. danielsand , that make it a little more interesting.. and something I'm going to follow up on.. and here's more photos..

06-12-2015, 11:57 PM	#15
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,275 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Daniel, Thank you for the hard work. This is most interesting, and a good lesson in history, as well as a cautionary tale--something to do with hasty conclusions! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

06-13-2015, 11:37 AM	#17
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	As an added note. The 42 chamber date is also non-standard.

06-20-2015, 09:25 AM	#18
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Anything more on the above?

06-20-2015, 10:23 AM	#19
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 728 Thanks: 2,092 Thanked 606 Times in 327 Posts	Thanks for the other photos, Kritter ! That helps a lot.