Help with odd holster.

Lugers down under · 12-29-2003, 11:07 PM

Can anyone identify this holster which I think is Swiss?

This next photo is the back side

The next view is inside

It is quite different from my other Swiss holsters as in the next photo you can see the flap stiching is along the top op the flap ends rather than down the flap ends.

Can any one help please?

Pete Ebbink · 12-30-2003, 12:05 AM

Hi Murray,

Glad to see you back on the Luger Forum...it has been awhile since you have posted last...

Here is a copy of page 44 in the Fritz Hausler book, "Scheizer Faustfeuerwaffen".

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/m1882holster3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/m1882holster3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

The photo caption indicates your holster might be for the Swiss customs service...but the photo is included in the chapter on the Swiss M1882 revolver and not for a luger...

Hope this helps...

p.s. If you want to find a new home for this holster, I would love to pick it up for my little M1882 revolver collection...email me at "pebbink@pacbell.net".

Best Regards for a Great New Year !!!

Pete...

Lugers down under · 12-30-2003, 02:20 PM

Thanks for your responce Pete, and a happy New Year to you. I have been away in the United States and have not had much time at home to use my lap top. I spent a month in Arizona and New Orleans in July August and have just returned from the SAR and Cross Roads of the West Gun show in Phoenix. Also visited Ralph Shattuck.
No, the holster is still different from the one you posted. It is all in the flap stitching of the flap sides which is quite different from all of my other swiss holsters. It definatly has had a Luger in it at some time as you can see the marks from the toggle and frame etc in the leather inside.
I have checked all my books and cannot find it. but thanks for your post.

Lugerdoc · 12-31-2003, 09:46 AM

Murry, Your holster appears to be the standard Swiss Ordnance pistol (luger) type in use from circa 1906 thru the 1920s. For photo examples see Gene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" pages 466-476. TH

Lugers down under · 12-31-2003, 02:57 PM

Thanks Tom,
My Chistmas present from my dear Wife was Eugene Benders' great book. It was the last that Simpson's had and she managed to get it down here and under the Christmas tree with out me finding out. That is what has prompted my post as while the holster is very similar to the ones shown on that page, it is different insomuch as the flap stitching is along the top ends of the flap rather than down the front ends as all of the other Swiss holsters shown and those that I have.
By the way, do you have the pin punch that fits the GNR holster, I managed to buy a nice one at the SAR show and also the matching two mag pouch all complete except for the pin punch.
Kind regards,

Pete Ebbink · 01-01-2004, 11:43 PM

Murray,

Besides the location of the stitching lines along the top of your holster flap, the belt loop on your holster does not seem very typical swiss either. Most swiss holster I have seen have two (2) loops with metal rivots on the bottom of each loop. Your holster has a single wide loop that is sewn both along the top and bottom...

Are there are maker stampings on the back that are visible ?

Regards,

Pete...

Lugers down under · 01-02-2004, 02:15 AM

You are correct Pete! i had not noticed that point.
I thought the holster was Swiss because it similar to other Swiss holsters that I have but it might not be Swiss. The front flap toggle has a small hole in the top of it which is not very clear on my photos.Unfortunatly there are no makers marks or any marks for that matter.It certainly takes a 30 cal Luger with a 4&3/4" barrel nicely though.
PS. Pete, who did you get your nice 1918 from here in New Zealand if you dont mind telling me, by e-mail if you wish.
Regards .

Pete Ebbink · 01-02-2004, 01:10 PM

Murray,

Fellow's name is Paul Kingsland at :

kingslands@xtra.co.nz

Take a look at the recent nice Navy holster he sold in our "For Sale" section...

He has also sold a very mint Artillery rig to one of the LF members, behind the scenes... as well.

Nice fellow to do business with...

p.s.

Back to your holster...you might want to post your photos on the following Swiss weapons site in the "Other Swiss Firearms" section. Lots of folks from Switzerland hang out there and we might get an answer for you...

http://pub18.ezboard.com/btheswissri...ommessageboard

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

panda · 01-02-2004, 06:50 PM

Murray,

Having looked at your holster and at the ones I have and the ones shown in Reinhart and Rutsch's books, I seriously doubt that this holster would be an ordinance holster. The fact that it is not marked should rule out any official use. In the absence of any marking, it could possibly be a Swiss commercial holster (see Rutsch p. 199, 2nd col.), though I've never seen one like yours before.

Hope this helped.
Panda

Lugers down under · 01-03-2004, 03:24 PM

Thanks Pands,
I sort of came to the same conclusion that it might be Swiss comercial.
Now all I have to do is find a Swiss commercial to go in it!
Regards
Murray.

Pete Ebbink · 01-03-2004, 05:57 PM

Murray,

Here is a copy of a photo in the new French booklets on Lugers. This photo is from page 63 from booklet # 2 of the "Le Luger Un Pistolet de Legende" series...

Take a look at the holster on the left side of the page...

The top flap stitching is very similar to your holster, but I think the French text reads that it is a military piece...only a small back view is shown and I am not sure it belongs (or not) to the holster on the left, unfortunately...

It is only a WAG on my part, but maybe leather shops were experimenting with how best to place the cut and stitch-line along the holster flap (i.e. either along the top surface or along the side, face surface). Reminds me of a roofing installation...with flashing and counter-flashing orientation being very important to help rain water shed off a flat surface...

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/oddswissholster.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/oddswissholster.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Lugers down under · 01-04-2004, 03:05 AM

Pete,
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
The photo on the left of the group of three is exactly the same as my holster, even down to the stitching on the flap top and the side "D" ring leather retainers are the same shape.
My wife translated the french as holster for 1900 model and I do have a really nice 1900 bug marked 1900 swiss very early serial number 7XX.
Thank you very much for your excellent work and assitance pete,
Regards
Murray.

Pete Ebbink · 01-04-2004, 12:17 PM

Murray,

I will reluctantly take this old, tired holster off your hands for the hours and hours of my hard research work performed...

Just kidding of course ! Enjoy your nice holster find...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

12-29-2003, 11:07 PM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Help with odd holster. Can anyone identify this holster which I think is Swiss? This next photo is the back side The next view is inside It is quite different from my other Swiss holsters as in the next photo you can see the flap stiching is along the top op the flap ends rather than down the flap ends. Can any one help please? __________________ Lugers down under

12-30-2003, 02:20 PM	#3
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for your responce Pete, and a happy New Year to you. I have been away in the United States and have not had much time at home to use my lap top. I spent a month in Arizona and New Orleans in July August and have just returned from the SAR and Cross Roads of the West Gun show in Phoenix. Also visited Ralph Shattuck. No, the holster is still different from the one you posted. It is all in the flap stitching of the flap sides which is quite different from all of my other swiss holsters. It definatly has had a Luger in it at some time as you can see the marks from the toggle and frame etc in the leather inside. I have checked all my books and cannot find it. but thanks for your post. __________________ Lugers down under

12-31-2003, 09:46 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Murry, Your holster appears to be the standard Swiss Ordnance pistol (luger) type in use from circa 1906 thru the 1920s. For photo examples see Gene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" pages 466-476. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-31-2003, 02:57 PM	#5
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks Tom, My Chistmas present from my dear Wife was Eugene Benders' great book. It was the last that Simpson's had and she managed to get it down here and under the Christmas tree with out me finding out. That is what has prompted my post as while the holster is very similar to the ones shown on that page, it is different insomuch as the flap stitching is along the top ends of the flap rather than down the front ends as all of the other Swiss holsters shown and those that I have. By the way, do you have the pin punch that fits the GNR holster, I managed to buy a nice one at the SAR show and also the matching two mag pouch all complete except for the pin punch. Kind regards, __________________ Lugers down under

01-02-2004, 02:15 AM	#7
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	You are correct Pete! i had not noticed that point. I thought the holster was Swiss because it similar to other Swiss holsters that I have but it might not be Swiss. The front flap toggle has a small hole in the top of it which is not very clear on my photos.Unfortunatly there are no makers marks or any marks for that matter.It certainly takes a 30 cal Luger with a 4&3/4" barrel nicely though. PS. Pete, who did you get your nice 1918 from here in New Zealand if you dont mind telling me, by e-mail if you wish. Regards . __________________ Lugers down under

12-30-2003, 12:05 AM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Murray, Glad to see you back on the Luger Forum...it has been awhile since you have posted last... Here is a copy of page 44 in the Fritz Hausler book, "Scheizer Faustfeuerwaffen". <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/m1882holster3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/m1882holster3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> The photo caption indicates your holster might be for the Swiss customs service...but the photo is included in the chapter on the Swiss M1882 revolver and not for a luger... Hope this helps... p.s. If you want to find a new home for this holster, I would love to pick it up for my little M1882 revolver collection...email me at "pebbink@pacbell.net". Best Regards for a Great New Year !!! Pete...

01-01-2004, 11:43 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Murray, Besides the location of the stitching lines along the top of your holster flap, the belt loop on your holster does not seem very typical swiss either. Most swiss holster I have seen have two (2) loops with metal rivots on the bottom of each loop. Your holster has a single wide loop that is sewn both along the top and bottom... Are there are maker stampings on the back that are visible ? Regards, Pete...

01-02-2004, 01:10 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Murray, Fellow's name is Paul Kingsland at : kingslands@xtra.co.nz Take a look at the recent nice Navy holster he sold in our "For Sale" section... He has also sold a very mint Artillery rig to one of the LF members, behind the scenes... as well. Nice fellow to do business with... p.s. Back to your holster...you might want to post your photos on the following Swiss weapons site in the "Other Swiss Firearms" section. Lots of folks from Switzerland hang out there and we might get an answer for you... http://pub18.ezboard.com/btheswissri...ommessageboard Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-02-2004, 06:50 PM	#9
panda User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Murray, Having looked at your holster and at the ones I have and the ones shown in Reinhart and Rutsch's books, I seriously doubt that this holster would be an ordinance holster. The fact that it is not marked should rule out any official use. In the absence of any marking, it could possibly be a Swiss commercial holster (see Rutsch p. 199, 2nd col.), though I've never seen one like yours before. Hope this helped. Panda

01-03-2004, 03:24 PM	#10
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks Pands, I sort of came to the same conclusion that it might be Swiss comercial. Now all I have to do is find a Swiss commercial to go in it! Regards Murray. __________________ Lugers down under

01-03-2004, 05:57 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Murray, Here is a copy of a photo in the new French booklets on Lugers. This photo is from page 63 from booklet # 2 of the "Le Luger Un Pistolet de Legende" series... Take a look at the holster on the left side of the page... The top flap stitching is very similar to your holster, but I think the French text reads that it is a military piece...only a small back view is shown and I am not sure it belongs (or not) to the holster on the left, unfortunately... It is only a WAG on my part, but maybe leather shops were experimenting with how best to place the cut and stitch-line along the holster flap (i.e. either along the top surface or along the side, face surface). Reminds me of a roofing installation...with flashing and counter-flashing orientation being very important to help rain water shed off a flat surface... <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/oddswissholster.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/oddswissholster.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-04-2004, 03:05 AM	#12
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Pete, I think you have hit the nail on the head. The photo on the left of the group of three is exactly the same as my holster, even down to the stitching on the flap top and the side "D" ring leather retainers are the same shape. My wife translated the french as holster for 1900 model and I do have a really nice 1900 bug marked 1900 swiss very early serial number 7XX. Thank you very much for your excellent work and assitance pete, Regards Murray. __________________ Lugers down under

01-04-2004, 12:17 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Murray, I will reluctantly take this old, tired holster off your hands for the hours and hours of my hard research work performed... Just kidding of course ! Enjoy your nice holster find... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />