The Extreme Face of War

Arizona Slim · 02-11-2016, 11:18 AM

More photos of the 2nd World War, many are pretty gruesome so please be aware.
These are from the personal collection of General Charles Palmer
Lon

http://argunners.com/amazing-wwii-ph...r-seen-before/

OIF2 · 02-12-2016, 08:32 AM

Good stuff. Thanks!
Bob

Arizona Slim · 02-12-2016, 04:10 PM

You"re welcome Bob, glad to do it.

Lon

Sergio Natali · 02-13-2016, 07:36 AM

Lonnie

Thanks for sharing, sometimes we are to influenced by films and fiction that we don't really realize what our parents/grandparents really saw with their own eyes, I enclose a video made only a few days ago, watching it I wonder where all the people went? People like us, with families, emotions, friends, and everyday's problems...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAG4HrAmdEg

Arizona Slim · 02-13-2016, 11:06 AM

Thanks Sergio, very interesting and thought provoking videos. I don't understand how our President and other politicians can justify sending our men and women into a situation like that as "trainers and advisers", those people have been at war with each other for many years, they are battle tested, experienced fighters and know the terrain and their adversaries well, what can outsiders possibly teach them with the possible exception in the use of new weapons that we are going to supply them with?

Lon

Sergio Natali · 02-13-2016, 02:38 PM

I agree Lon whatever angle you look at it, it's a flipping mess anyway, unfortunately there are "deeper" interests down there called "oil fields".

Regards.

MikeP · 02-15-2016, 01:22 AM

Well, having some experience in the advisory capacity and keeping acquainted with some of the guys doing the same over the years, I can attest there is quite a bit that can be imparted to these imagined experienced fighters.
Weapons and equipment are a giveaway.
Tactics, techniques, and related activities. believe it or not, are another. Lots more stuff besides weapons involved.
A lot of what those folks do is based on tribal and local issues and not related to anything above that.
Guys working out with the tribes in Afghanistan had a hard time holding their troops in any kind of order. Getting killed in action was a good thing and they would charge into hot areas disregarding their own and anybody else's welfare.
It is hard if not near impossible to get changes implicated, but the decision was made to try. There are an awful lot of hard charging youngsters, mainly SOF types who really like this stuff ad are willing to put themselves on the line just for that.
All the SF guys I served with were at least triple volunteers and repeatedly extended tours and combat related assignments.
Some of the folks wer advised were real hard chargers and others had to be driven to it. We had to be careful to maintain civil relationships as a lot of time was spent patrolling with 2 Americans and 10-50 grinning tribesmen or ferocious Cambodes for weeks at a time.
We do have an all volunteer force now with considerable experience, and there are still those who stay in their basements and opine as to how things should be.

CAP Black · 02-15-2016, 08:55 PM

It seems to me that from the stories we hear from soldiers returning there are four major mistakes we make:
1) Getting into wars that we have no business in: Viet Nam, Korea, Iraq
2) Tie one arm behind our troops backs - so to speak: make them fight a limited effort battle.
3) Don't give them the best weapons; like guns that rusted in Viet Nam.
4) spend our monies and lives to fight their battle and get nothing to show for it. Not even a more secure nation for us.
And I am a veteran

02-11-2016, 11:18 AM	#1
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	The Extreme Face of War More photos of the 2nd World War, many are pretty gruesome so please be aware. These are from the personal collection of General Charles Palmer Lon http://argunners.com/amazing-wwii-ph...r-seen-before/

02-13-2016, 07:36 AM	#4
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Lonnie Thanks for sharing, sometimes we are to influenced by films and fiction that we don't really realize what our parents/grandparents really saw with their own eyes, I enclose a video made only a few days ago, watching it I wonder where all the people went? People like us, with families, emotions, friends, and everyday's problems... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAG4HrAmdEg __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-13-2016, 02:38 PM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I agree Lon whatever angle you look at it, it's a flipping mess anyway, unfortunately there are "deeper" interests down there called "oil fields". Regards. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-12-2016, 08:32 AM	#2
OIF2 User Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: TEXAS Posts: 83 Thanks: 133 Thanked 73 Times in 25 Posts	Good stuff. Thanks! Bob

02-12-2016, 04:10 PM	#3
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	You"re welcome Bob, glad to do it. Lon

02-13-2016, 11:06 AM	#5
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Thanks Sergio, very interesting and thought provoking videos. I don't understand how our President and other politicians can justify sending our men and women into a situation like that as "trainers and advisers", those people have been at war with each other for many years, they are battle tested, experienced fighters and know the terrain and their adversaries well, what can outsiders possibly teach them with the possible exception in the use of new weapons that we are going to supply them with? Lon

02-15-2016, 01:22 AM	#7
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Well, having some experience in the advisory capacity and keeping acquainted with some of the guys doing the same over the years, I can attest there is quite a bit that can be imparted to these imagined experienced fighters. Weapons and equipment are a giveaway. Tactics, techniques, and related activities. believe it or not, are another. Lots more stuff besides weapons involved. A lot of what those folks do is based on tribal and local issues and not related to anything above that. Guys working out with the tribes in Afghanistan had a hard time holding their troops in any kind of order. Getting killed in action was a good thing and they would charge into hot areas disregarding their own and anybody else's welfare. It is hard if not near impossible to get changes implicated, but the decision was made to try. There are an awful lot of hard charging youngsters, mainly SOF types who really like this stuff ad are willing to put themselves on the line just for that. All the SF guys I served with were at least triple volunteers and repeatedly extended tours and combat related assignments. Some of the folks wer advised were real hard chargers and others had to be driven to it. We had to be careful to maintain civil relationships as a lot of time was spent patrolling with 2 Americans and 10-50 grinning tribesmen or ferocious Cambodes for weeks at a time. We do have an all volunteer force now with considerable experience, and there are still those who stay in their basements and opine as to how things should be.

02-15-2016, 08:55 PM	#8
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	It seems to me that from the stories we hear from soldiers returning there are four major mistakes we make: 1) Getting into wars that we have no business in: Viet Nam, Korea, Iraq 2) Tie one arm behind our troops backs - so to speak: make them fight a limited effort battle. 3) Don't give them the best weapons; like guns that rusted in Viet Nam. 4) spend our monies and lives to fight their battle and get nothing to show for it. Not even a more secure nation for us. And I am a veteran