Pistole Parabellum by Joachim Gortz and Geoffrey L. Sturgess

Edward Tinker · 12-10-2010, 10:01 PM

Pistole Parabellum by Joachim Goertz and Geoffrey L. Sturgess, edited by R. Blake Stevens.
This book has received some very controversial press on several forums. I obtained a copy of the three volumes, so I could give a fairly unbiased review of this book. Before I get into the pros and cons of the review, I will simply say that notwithstanding conflict between the authors and the publisher / editor; that this is a set of books that the Goertz estate and Geoffrey Sturgess should be proud of. It is well worth the money and I have found it very easy to read and very encompassing.

The first volume has an extensive table of contents and also an extensive index at the end of the third volume. Volume 1 is called “The Models” which discusses all the assorted models produced. Volume 2 is Manufacture, procurement and markings, while volume 3 is Accessories and Ancillaries. In the big scheme of things, you are getting three books of a set of all-encompassing information for about $125 a book. I think it is well worth the money.

From what I understand, Mr. Sturgess objected to items being moved around and subtitles added. The addition of subtitles he felt made areas of the book sound too dramatic. With this I agree, although I do not find it as objectionable as some might, but it can be a slight distraction from a serious work. Examples include; “Responsibility: Knowledge is a Two-Edged Sword” and “Lowes’ Ducks in a Row” plus “Off on a tangent; Testing new Roth and Frommer designs”.

The second issue from what I understand is that the order of what was written was changed by Mr Stevens. Since I have not seen the original manuscript, I can only go by what I have read, and the book does jump in several directions. A good example is where the Dutch luger is discussed and the following chapter discusses the Imperial Era luger, which to me should have been discussed before the Dutch lugers. In addition, the separate sub-chapters seem to skip a bit, as an example, some of the Erfurt information has to be found in many locations.

These issues withstanding, I have found only a few small mistakes and misconceptions (in my view); specifically the ‘sneak’ lugers are not discussed as the Riff contract, which many collectors presently believe; rather than as Sturgess states were leftover DWM parts and thus not marked to hide them from the liberal press and deceive people into believing they were not made by DWM or Mauser. There is also a discussion that the English firm Vickers had an entire assembly line ready to make lugers, although only 6,000 were made. The argument is pretty convincing, and I am still on the sidelines on whether I agree or not.

There are three volumes of information that is well researched, well written, and I have found no typos or mistakes (I am sure there are some, but I have not found any the last 3-4 days while reading the books). You have three books, totaling almost 1900 pages with color photographs and a huge amount of information that I can barely grasp all the information; this can be taken as a positive or a negative, as there simply is so much information to try and grasp; spread over three volumes. I specifically read the information on the Simson lugers, and found a few things that I found in line with my thinking and a few I don’t agree with. (S codes, I feel this is a misnomer, as I don’t believe that the S was a code, as in say, the byf code; since S toggles and Simson and Co toggles were made simultaneously). But although I do not believe that Sturgess has read our book Simson Lugers, he essentially came to the same conclusions we did.

Mr. Sturgess has stated that he will make a set of books that is exactly as he originally planned and I would suggest that folks buy it when it comes out. Meanwhile, these volumes appear to be must haves also.

CharolayAnitua · 12-12-2010, 08:57 AM

Mr. Tinker

I have read your review of the book Pistole Parabellum by Blake Stevens on the two forums.

Let me open by taking up three points from your opening paragraph of the review which puzzle me.
1) your phrase "fairly unbiased review" - does that mean you are slightly biased ?
2) it has been stated by Dr Sturgess that both he and the Gortz estate " completely disown this production and accept no liability for its presentation or the factual accuracy of its contents, which are solely the responsibility of the editor."
Therefore your comment "this is a set of books "that the Goertz (sic) estate and Geoffrey Sturgess should be proud of" isn't in agreement with their stated viewpoint.
3) Very easy to read and very encompassing? Is it?
I take my hat off to you Sir, reviewing the book in 3 days ..... 2000 pages. - WOW! (now there's a nonsensical interjection!)
The original Sturgess manuscript is not an easy read at all due to the density of information presented but at least everything flows in a chronological and logical narrative order - I will come back to this manuscript in a minute.

I take up one more point from your review, a specific one which relates to your belief that the S code for Simson is a misnomer.
Use by Simson of the "S" code for concealed maker identification on firearms (Simson), P code for ammunition (Polte) etc during the 1920s is clearly explained from official documents within the Sturgess manuscript.

To summarise your review - if I am totally open minded - which of course I am not about the issues involved - I really would not know which way to go reading your brief - do I buy or don't I buy the CGP version?
The review sits right in the middle on the fence - like a politician!

Thankfully, the decision has been made for me:

"Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols", the expanded and revised book of the original manuscript as written and intended by the authors in its original narrative and chronological order, without the CGP enhancements that you find unhelpful, will be shipping May 2012, as a deluxe printed multi-volume book, bundled in a slip case with a zoomable/searchable text & illustration DVD and a separate video DVD, at a provisional bundle price under half CGP's, and the DVD version of the book will also be available at the same time separately, as will the video DVD showing the guns in action. Publishing contracts have been negotiated with a prominent US Luger book publisher, and print layouts and video production are currently underway.

Roll on 2012!

Edward Tinker · 12-12-2010, 09:50 AM

Sir, you should at least sign your name. Your sarcasim I can do without.

YES, I am prejudiced, as I have read the same info and felt it was a good product, even tho the author did not feel so.

My comments are my own, and since I was honest enough to say that it was a quick review over 3 days, yes, that is true, I wanted a feeling of the books and not a complete review.

Did I say that my rewivew was all encompassing? No, I sure did not? I said that the books are?

I said that the books are worthwhile to buy, they have tons of good information in them.

I am not involved in the controversy between Geoffrey and in fact do not know him. Besides many old-time dealers, the only name I saw in the credits of someone I personally knew was Ron Wood; the reason I bring that up is that obviously Mr. Sturgess does not associate with many members of NAPCA or the two forums, to include Jan Still. That is fine, but since the internet is here to stay, not involving many well known collectors is a shame.

Well, the S code I believe is a wrong assumption. I have heard this for years and to include in the new Mauser book by Joop and Don. If it is a secret code then why is the Simson and co used at the same time, right up to the end of production? Taking the other side of the fence, perhaps it is a code if used like the byf and the Banner used by Mauser? but I do not beleive that Simson made lugers for the commericial market.

I don't have all the answers, I can say that it is something I have reasearched and read about from other people.

From what I have read, the authors, Sturgess and Gortz state that the factual information was not changed, but by moving information things were put in the wrong context. I beleive i addressed that, in adddtion, I said twice that I felt this was a worthwhile book to purchase, if that is stradeling the fence, then so be it.

Ed

BTW, Goertz is spelled correctly when you don't use a umlaut, if I am wrong on this, please correct me.

Vlim · 12-12-2010, 09:55 AM

Reviews are always statements of personal opinion and respect for Ed to dive in and obtain this set of books. Of course, one can only decide whether the books were worth the purchase afterwards.

Ed has written a number of books himself, so he is familiar with the creative process, the pitfalls and the editing process in general. So he will have scanned the book with a writers eye. After just completing a 540-page book I know how that process goes by now.

Anyway, it is good to see that an additional version of the books will be published in 2012, alongside the already announced DVD-version.

After following this entire story I'm very glad that my experience with the editor and publisher have been positive, smooth and entertaining, which led to a final product on which we are all equally proud. The biggest problem encountered so far is a delay in shipping, which is mostly the result of the current weather conditions.

If anyone sends me a free copy, I will gladly do another review of the CGP-version

Imperial Arms · 12-12-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Sir, you should at least sign your name. Your sarcasim I can do without.

Greetings Ed,

Please give Harry 10 infraction points for his inappropriate sarcasm. I find it rather insulting to you and he should be burned.

With Christmas around the corner, I am wondering if I can hand in my points for a present?

Blessings,
Albert

Vlim · 12-12-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

BTW, Goertz is spelled correctly when you don't use a umlaut, if I am wrong on this, please correct me.

This is correct. Görtz and Goertz are both acceptable. Gortz is wrong.

12-10-2010, 10:01 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Pistole Parabellum by Joachim Gortz and Geoffrey L. Sturgess Pistole Parabellum by Joachim Goertz and Geoffrey L. Sturgess, edited by R. Blake Stevens. This book has received some very controversial press on several forums. I obtained a copy of the three volumes, so I could give a fairly unbiased review of this book. Before I get into the pros and cons of the review, I will simply say that notwithstanding conflict between the authors and the publisher / editor; that this is a set of books that the Goertz estate and Geoffrey Sturgess should be proud of. It is well worth the money and I have found it very easy to read and very encompassing. The first volume has an extensive table of contents and also an extensive index at the end of the third volume. Volume 1 is called “The Models” which discusses all the assorted models produced. Volume 2 is Manufacture, procurement and markings, while volume 3 is Accessories and Ancillaries. In the big scheme of things, you are getting three books of a set of all-encompassing information for about $125 a book. I think it is well worth the money. From what I understand, Mr. Sturgess objected to items being moved around and subtitles added. The addition of subtitles he felt made areas of the book sound too dramatic. With this I agree, although I do not find it as objectionable as some might, but it can be a slight distraction from a serious work. Examples include; “Responsibility: Knowledge is a Two-Edged Sword” and “Lowes’ Ducks in a Row” plus “Off on a tangent; Testing new Roth and Frommer designs”. The second issue from what I understand is that the order of what was written was changed by Mr Stevens. Since I have not seen the original manuscript, I can only go by what I have read, and the book does jump in several directions. A good example is where the Dutch luger is discussed and the following chapter discusses the Imperial Era luger, which to me should have been discussed before the Dutch lugers. In addition, the separate sub-chapters seem to skip a bit, as an example, some of the Erfurt information has to be found in many locations. These issues withstanding, I have found only a few small mistakes and misconceptions (in my view); specifically the ‘sneak’ lugers are not discussed as the Riff contract, which many collectors presently believe; rather than as Sturgess states were leftover DWM parts and thus not marked to hide them from the liberal press and deceive people into believing they were not made by DWM or Mauser. There is also a discussion that the English firm Vickers had an entire assembly line ready to make lugers, although only 6,000 were made. The argument is pretty convincing, and I am still on the sidelines on whether I agree or not. There are three volumes of information that is well researched, well written, and I have found no typos or mistakes (I am sure there are some, but I have not found any the last 3-4 days while reading the books). You have three books, totaling almost 1900 pages with color photographs and a huge amount of information that I can barely grasp all the information; this can be taken as a positive or a negative, as there simply is so much information to try and grasp; spread over three volumes. I specifically read the information on the Simson lugers, and found a few things that I found in line with my thinking and a few I don’t agree with. (S codes, I feel this is a misnomer, as I don’t believe that the S was a code, as in say, the byf code; since S toggles and Simson and Co toggles were made simultaneously). But although I do not believe that Sturgess has read our book Simson Lugers, he essentially came to the same conclusions we did. Mr. Sturgess has stated that he will make a set of books that is exactly as he originally planned and I would suggest that folks buy it when it comes out. Meanwhile, these volumes appear to be must haves also. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-12-2010, 08:57 AM	#2
CharolayAnitua New User Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pistole Parabellum Mr. Tinker I have read your review of the book Pistole Parabellum by Blake Stevens on the two forums. Let me open by taking up three points from your opening paragraph of the review which puzzle me. 1) your phrase "fairly unbiased review" - does that mean you are slightly biased ? 2) it has been stated by Dr Sturgess that both he and the Gortz estate " completely disown this production and accept no liability for its presentation or the factual accuracy of its contents, which are solely the responsibility of the editor." Therefore your comment "this is a set of books "that the Goertz (sic) estate and Geoffrey Sturgess should be proud of" isn't in agreement with their stated viewpoint. 3) Very easy to read and very encompassing? Is it? I take my hat off to you Sir, reviewing the book in 3 days ..... 2000 pages. - WOW! (now there's a nonsensical interjection!) The original Sturgess manuscript is not an easy read at all due to the density of information presented but at least everything flows in a chronological and logical narrative order - I will come back to this manuscript in a minute. I take up one more point from your review, a specific one which relates to your belief that the S code for Simson is a misnomer. Use by Simson of the "S" code for concealed maker identification on firearms (Simson), P code for ammunition (Polte) etc during the 1920s is clearly explained from official documents within the Sturgess manuscript. To summarise your review - if I am totally open minded - which of course I am not about the issues involved - I really would not know which way to go reading your brief - do I buy or don't I buy the CGP version? The review sits right in the middle on the fence - like a politician! Thankfully, the decision has been made for me: "Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols", the expanded and revised book of the original manuscript as written and intended by the authors in its original narrative and chronological order, without the CGP enhancements that you find unhelpful, will be shipping May 2012, as a deluxe printed multi-volume book, bundled in a slip case with a zoomable/searchable text & illustration DVD and a separate video DVD, at a provisional bundle price under half CGP's, and the DVD version of the book will also be available at the same time separately, as will the video DVD showing the guns in action. Publishing contracts have been negotiated with a prominent US Luger book publisher, and print layouts and video production are currently underway. Roll on 2012!

12-12-2010, 09:50 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Sir, you should at least sign your name. Your sarcasim I can do without. YES, I am prejudiced, as I have read the same info and felt it was a good product, even tho the author did not feel so. My comments are my own, and since I was honest enough to say that it was a quick review over 3 days, yes, that is true, I wanted a feeling of the books and not a complete review. Did I say that my rewivew was all encompassing? No, I sure did not? I said that the books are? I said that the books are worthwhile to buy, they have tons of good information in them. I am not involved in the controversy between Geoffrey and in fact do not know him. Besides many old-time dealers, the only name I saw in the credits of someone I personally knew was Ron Wood; the reason I bring that up is that obviously Mr. Sturgess does not associate with many members of NAPCA or the two forums, to include Jan Still. That is fine, but since the internet is here to stay, not involving many well known collectors is a shame. Well, the S code I believe is a wrong assumption. I have heard this for years and to include in the new Mauser book by Joop and Don. If it is a secret code then why is the Simson and co used at the same time, right up to the end of production? Taking the other side of the fence, perhaps it is a code if used like the byf and the Banner used by Mauser? but I do not beleive that Simson made lugers for the commericial market. I don't have all the answers, I can say that it is something I have reasearched and read about from other people. From what I have read, the authors, Sturgess and Gortz state that the factual information was not changed, but by moving information things were put in the wrong context. I beleive i addressed that, in adddtion, I said twice that I felt this was a worthwhile book to purchase, if that is stradeling the fence, then so be it. Ed BTW, Goertz is spelled correctly when you don't use a umlaut, if I am wrong on this, please correct me.

12-12-2010, 09:55 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Reviews are always statements of personal opinion and respect for Ed to dive in and obtain this set of books. Of course, one can only decide whether the books were worth the purchase afterwards. Ed has written a number of books himself, so he is familiar with the creative process, the pitfalls and the editing process in general. So he will have scanned the book with a writers eye. After just completing a 540-page book I know how that process goes by now. Anyway, it is good to see that an additional version of the books will be published in 2012, alongside the already announced DVD-version. After following this entire story I'm very glad that my experience with the editor and publisher have been positive, smooth and entertaining, which led to a final product on which we are all equally proud. The biggest problem encountered so far is a delay in shipping, which is mostly the result of the current weather conditions. If anyone sends me a free copy, I will gladly do another review of the CGP-version