Newby in the right Place?

tom21 · 12-14-2009, 12:29 PM

Hi, I am new to the forum. WOW a lot of info and history on this site. I like to find unusual guns (not much value sometimes but they have unique properties)

Let me start off here.
I acquired what looks like a DWM 1913 .45 conversion.
SN 2260 - not all numbers match - It looks like someone has tried to remove the markings on the right side of the receiver

It has an 8.5 inch barrel. The rear sight ring covers where the numbers should be on the barrel opposite the frame number.

Adjustable sights mounted on the barrel by means of a one piece ring set up. It almost looks like they removed the front blade and slid the sights up as far as they could and sweated them in place. Instead of meters it says Micro on the top of the sights

The grips are smooth wood with the magazine butt matching.

I tried putting two rounds in the mag and cycled the action. It fed the .45 and ejected it without a problem.

I am having a hard time finding any info about this gun except (A) it doesn't exist or (B) it was cobbled together using Luger parts. I vote for (B)

I have not torn it down yet. I did take the grips off and it looks like they cut/ground some of the front magazine well away to accommodate the .45 magazine. As I have been studying some of the topics on this site I do see they made their own magazine release spring or modified the original.

Any help would be appreciated on parts and things to watch for on these conversions.

Sorry if I loaded this topic in the wrong place. I wasn’t sure if I should put it up on this site. Ya’ll have some awesome purebred Lugers on this site and this one is a mongrel pup at best.

I uploaded some pictures in case anybody has any ideas. Constructive that is. lol
Thanks
Tom

Curly1 · 12-14-2009, 12:34 PM

I would vote for B also and if it were me I wouldn't even attempt to fire it.

Bittrich · 12-14-2009, 01:09 PM

"DWM 1913 .45 conversion"

Mother of God...I didn't realize that could be done.

Yes, B. I highly recommend caution if shooting it.

Bittrich

Ron Wood · 12-14-2009, 01:39 PM

Looks like a reasonably good job by a gunsmith that knew what he was doing and not just a bubba hack job. The mass of the barrel should help tame the recoil. More photos would be appreciated to see the frame modification, how the bolt face was opened up, heavier springs, etc. I have seen a photos of a couple of .45 conversions that were made with standard Luger frames (not enlarged as John Martz does by splicing two frames together). I would imagine they might have feeding problems because of the different overall length of the 9mm vs .45 cartridges. Perhaps the custom made magazine and frame modification accommodates this.
I suspect it is probably functional and could be fired (but I assume no liability if you do!

). Is there any evidence that it has been fired?
Neat gun. Looking forward to some more photos.

Ice · 12-14-2009, 02:13 PM

I would love photos of the internal parts, the breech face and perhaps a loaded magazine inserted into the magwell with the toggle top off. It looks very nice and the conversion mechanics fascinate me.

Charlie

tom21 · 12-14-2009, 11:14 PM

I will start the teardown tomorrow. I will get as many of the photos ya'll are asking about as I can get and post them tomorrow morning. I'm really curious where they got the barrel.

thanks for the help and insights

Tom

sheepherder · 12-15-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom21

I'm really curious where they got the barrel.

Cut-down MG barrel, possibly Thompson M1...WAG...

Dwight Gruber · 12-15-2009, 02:04 PM

Note that the toggle ramps have been built-up and reconfigured to open the toggle earlier.

Does anyone recognize what magazine might have been the donor for the modification to work in this gun?

--Dwight

alanint · 12-15-2009, 03:33 PM

The magazine body may be from a Colt .45 1911, but actually looks more scratch built than anything. I've never seen one like it.

LugerVern · 12-15-2009, 07:07 PM

The gun has seen many modifications.

I do not like the short cycle of the action, it worries me that there is not enough delay to allow high pressure gases to reduce in pressure before the action opens.

Please be very very careful if you decide to shoot it!

Vern

Dwight Gruber · 12-15-2009, 10:31 PM

It would be interesting to see pictures of all angles of the magazine and details of its construction. John Martz has mentioned that the most difficult part of creating his .45 Luger conversion was to create a reliable magazine, which the rest of the gun was then designed around.

--Dwight

lfid · 07-02-2010, 02:27 AM

seems like the innovation on this one is the modified profile of the feed ramps , I dont think this has been published or referenced anywhere

would be important to see how that much magazine length can be accepted into the frame front and rear guide channels for the magazine

wow - very interesting 45 conversion

were the sample rounds you fired standard 45 acp cartridges - or were they some special handloads perhaps of less overall length / came with the gun ?

congratulations on your find !!!

Bill

sheepherder · 10-01-2014, 01:16 PM

Tom -

Have you been able to find out any more about this 45 conversion???

TheRomanhistorian · 10-01-2014, 02:56 PM

What a fascinating pistol though I also wonder how safe it is to fire. How did the Martz .45 guns deal with the pressure? Or the Werle .45s?

Zorba · 10-01-2014, 05:11 PM

This pistol is obviously cobbled together out of junk parts and is unsafe to even look at. You need to send to me immediately for disposal. I won't even charge you!

Lugerdoc · 10-02-2014, 11:54 AM

It would appear that your mag is modeled after the T94 Nambu mag. John Martz used modified .45 Sig 220 mags that he got from GT. TH

12-14-2009, 12:29 PM	#1
tom21 New User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Coast Florida Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Newby in the right Place? Hi, I am new to the forum. WOW a lot of info and history on this site. I like to find unusual guns (not much value sometimes but they have unique properties) Let me start off here. I acquired what looks like a DWM 1913 .45 conversion. SN 2260 - not all numbers match - It looks like someone has tried to remove the markings on the right side of the receiver It has an 8.5 inch barrel. The rear sight ring covers where the numbers should be on the barrel opposite the frame number. Adjustable sights mounted on the barrel by means of a one piece ring set up. It almost looks like they removed the front blade and slid the sights up as far as they could and sweated them in place. Instead of meters it says Micro on the top of the sights The grips are smooth wood with the magazine butt matching. I tried putting two rounds in the mag and cycled the action. It fed the .45 and ejected it without a problem. I am having a hard time finding any info about this gun except (A) it doesn't exist or (B) it was cobbled together using Luger parts. I vote for (B) I have not torn it down yet. I did take the grips off and it looks like they cut/ground some of the front magazine well away to accommodate the .45 magazine. As I have been studying some of the topics on this site I do see they made their own magazine release spring or modified the original. Any help would be appreciated on parts and things to watch for on these conversions. Sorry if I loaded this topic in the wrong place. I wasn’t sure if I should put it up on this site. Ya’ll have some awesome purebred Lugers on this site and this one is a mongrel pup at best. I uploaded some pictures in case anybody has any ideas. Constructive that is. lol Thanks Tom Attached Thumbnails

12-14-2009, 12:34 PM	#2
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,242 Thanks: 117 Thanked 714 Times in 371 Posts	I would vote for B also and if it were me I wouldn't even attempt to fire it. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

12-14-2009, 01:09 PM	#3
Bittrich User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"DWM 1913 .45 conversion" Mother of God...I didn't realize that could be done. Yes, B. I highly recommend caution if shooting it. Bittrich Last edited by Bittrich; 12-14-2009 at 02:36 PM.

12-14-2009, 01:39 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Looks like a reasonably good job by a gunsmith that knew what he was doing and not just a bubba hack job. The mass of the barrel should help tame the recoil. More photos would be appreciated to see the frame modification, how the bolt face was opened up, heavier springs, etc. I have seen a photos of a couple of .45 conversions that were made with standard Luger frames (not enlarged as John Martz does by splicing two frames together). I would imagine they might have feeding problems because of the different overall length of the 9mm vs .45 cartridges. Perhaps the custom made magazine and frame modification accommodates this. I suspect it is probably functional and could be fired (but I assume no liability if you do!). Is there any evidence that it has been fired? Neat gun. Looking forward to some more photos. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-15-2009, 07:07 PM	#10
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	The gun has seen many modifications. I do not like the short cycle of the action, it worries me that there is not enough delay to allow high pressure gases to reduce in pressure before the action opens. Please be very very careful if you decide to shoot it! Vern Attached Thumbnails

12-14-2009, 02:13 PM	#5
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	I would love photos of the internal parts, the breech face and perhaps a loaded magazine inserted into the magwell with the toggle top off. It looks very nice and the conversion mechanics fascinate me. Charlie

12-14-2009, 11:14 PM	#6
tom21 New User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Coast Florida Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I will start the teardown tomorrow. I will get as many of the photos ya'll are asking about as I can get and post them tomorrow morning. I'm really curious where they got the barrel. thanks for the help and insights Tom

12-15-2009, 02:04 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	Note that the toggle ramps have been built-up and reconfigured to open the toggle earlier. Does anyone recognize what magazine might have been the donor for the modification to work in this gun? --Dwight

12-15-2009, 03:33 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The magazine body may be from a Colt .45 1911, but actually looks more scratch built than anything. I've never seen one like it.

12-15-2009, 10:31 PM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	It would be interesting to see pictures of all angles of the magazine and details of its construction. John Martz has mentioned that the most difficult part of creating his .45 Luger conversion was to create a reliable magazine, which the rest of the gun was then designed around. --Dwight

07-02-2010, 02:27 AM	#12
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	seems like the innovation on this one is the modified profile of the feed ramps , I dont think this has been published or referenced anywhere would be important to see how that much magazine length can be accepted into the frame front and rear guide channels for the magazine wow - very interesting 45 conversion were the sample rounds you fired standard 45 acp cartridges - or were they some special handloads perhaps of less overall length / came with the gun ? congratulations on your find !!! Bill

10-01-2014, 01:16 PM	#13
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Tom - Have you been able to find out any more about this 45 conversion??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-01-2014, 02:56 PM	#14
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	What a fascinating pistol though I also wonder how safe it is to fire. How did the Martz .45 guns deal with the pressure? Or the Werle .45s? __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

10-01-2014, 05:11 PM	#15
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	This pistol is obviously cobbled together out of junk parts and is unsafe to even look at. You need to send to me immediately for disposal. I won't even charge you!

10-02-2014, 11:54 AM	#16
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	It would appear that your mag is modeled after the T94 Nambu mag. John Martz used modified .45 Sig 220 mags that he got from GT. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net