Holster help

[PalmTree2]

Hi Guys,

Can someone help me with this holster marking? I know it's Ehrhardt & Kirsten, Koffer & Lederwarenfabrik, Tauscha-Leipzig who used the code of E. K. St.........

My question is how rare is the EKSt marking? Anything special? I can't really find any comps. Was this their standard marking or did they go by another mark as well?

Thanks,
Mitch

[reich1900]

They also went by their war time code bdq with WaA 170 but I'm not sure when. My reference states around 1941 but? As for your other question that I can't help, sorry.

[MP38]

The maker mark "E.K. St." is for Ernst Kurz, Stuttgart. They used WaA 101. They made Luger holsters from 1938-1939, and P38 holsters in 1941 using this marking.
Not really a rare maker to find though, but different.

BTW- Maker code "bdq" is for Ehrhardt und Kirsten, Leipzig. Totally different maker and location. They used WaA 170 in 1938.

Matt

[wlyon]

Matt
Curious where you got this info?? All my references show E.K.St for Ehrhardt &,Kirsten WaA 101 and 170. Also later bdq. Bill

[DonVoigt]

Looks like E.K.Sp. to me.

[MP38]

Originally Posted by wlyon

Matt
Curious where you got this info?? All my references show E.K.St for Ehrhardt &,Kirsten WaA 101 and 170. Also later bdq. Bill

Bill,

I'm curious to know what references you have that state EK St. is for Ehrhardt & Kristen????
Ehrhardt & Kristen is located in Leipzig.
So what would the "St." stand for?

Whenever you see an abbreviation like this, the Germans used the first letter and last letter of the city the maker is located in. So "St." the "S" would be the first letter, and the "t" would be the last letter. Stuttgart is the only possibility. Plus the WaA inspector at that time (1938-1939) in Stuttgart was WaA101, which is what is on this holster.

Also, WaA inspector located in Stuttgart would not be used in Leipzig at the same time. Inspectors were assigned to regions or districts.
I have no records of WaA 101 inspector ever being used in Leipzig area. The only WaA inspector assigned to Leipzig area was WaA170.

You can certainly feel free to research the WaA info I posted as well as the maker I posted, and see for yourself.

As for WaA 101, makers that used it were;
- Auwaerter und Bubeck
- Karl Hepting u. Co.
- Ernst Kurz.

All located in Stuttgart. The only other holster maker that used WaA 101 was J.J. Schlayer
located in Reutlingen, which is a few miles south of Stuttgart.


Makers that used WaA 170;
- Ehrhardt und Kirsten, Leipzig
- Otto Graf, Leipzig
- Sparfeld, Leipzig
- Albin Scholle, Zeitz (which is a few miles south of Leipzig)
- Ehrhardt & Kirsten, Taucka (2nd location for them, which is a few miles north east of Leipzig)

Hope this helps.

Matt

[wlyon]

My references: Gun Collectors Digest , article by John Walter, who says that Ehrhardt and Kirsten possibly also manufactured holsters in Stuttgart, Eugene Bender in his book Luger Holsters and Accessories, Also his book Military Holsters. I can not find Ernst Kurz in any of my references including Klaus's listing of 371 manufacturers. Thanks for the info. Bill

[MP38]

Bill,

No problem. To answer your original question my info comes from years of research on my own. I have never seen a reference book yet that does not have at least one error, or false information in it.

Eugene Bender's book is full of mistakes and is very outdated IMO.

I haven't read the article you mention, nor have I ever heard of John Walther, but I'm very curious as to where John Walther got this information from? or what evidence he has that Ehrhardt und Kirsten had a factory in Stuttgart?? I've never seen any information or evidence of this. Until I do, I can only assume this is just a fantasy, or he's taking his info from other books that you mentioned as well.
I have already mentioned that Ehrhardt & Kirsten's 2nd location was in Taucka, and I have seen holsters marked this as well.

Claus does list Ernst Kurz in his list. Please see Claus's list is here;

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...links/WAAE.pdf

if you look under WaA 101, you'll find this;
101 flrgn. hol. Ernst Kurz Stuttgart (BW) 1937

He also has Ehrhardt und Kirsten Leipzig (Sn) listed under 101, but this is incorrect IMO. The abbreviation "St." would not connect with Leipzig as I previously mentioned.
Even his list is not complete though. (at least for holster makers that is.)

Hope this helps,
Matt

[DonVoigt]

MP38,
Maybe you should write an updated book?

[MP38]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

MP38,
Maybe you should write an updated book?

DonVoigt,

Thanks Don. I've been asked this many times over the years actually. I did start writing a holster book a few years ago. Three big problems are;

1. I don't have the time now.
With my current job, I just am too busy. I am also currently trying to push my wife's career now so I can retire soon.

2. I don't want to help the fakers out any more.
Every time a new book comes out with new found information, there is an immediate following of new "fakes" that match it.

3. I continue to discover new information almost every month.
So writing another book, that would be outdated, or missing information literally by the time it's published is not a good idea IMO, and not something I would want to do.


Thanks,
Matt

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by MP38

DonVoigt,

Thanks Don. I've been asked this many times over the years actually. I did start writing a holster book a few years ago. Three big problems are;

1. I don't have the time now.
With my current job, I just am too busy. I am also currently trying to push my wife's career now so I can retire soon.

2. I don't want to help the fakers out any more.
Every time a new book comes out with new found information, there is an immediate following of new "fakes" that match it.

3. I continue to discover new information almost every month.
So writing another book, that would be outdated, or missing information literally by the time it's published is not a good idea IMO, and not something I would want to do.


Thanks,
Matt

Matt,
I sympathize with your "condition", but encourage you to do it anyway.

1- Time- after retirement could work well!
2-True, but that is also true of all such books, I think not a very good reason- even though accurate. If all authors didn't write- we would be really at the "mercy" of fakers.
3-Yes, writing a book garners more and new info immediately.
As an author myself I sympathize, but again is "nothing" better than something? I think not!

And I'll add:
4- Some of what you write will be inaccurate or proven wrong shortly after publishing- comes with the territory.

Your choice of course, but you could do a service to the hobby and all collectors !

[MP38]

Thanks Don. I appreciate your comments.

I understand your points. However, I guess I'm just a little sensitive to criticism sometimes.
However, I've always been willing to help out fellow collectors though. (just like Mitch on this thread)

What book did you write? I'll have to check it out.

I'll also add a 4th reason, and that is that I'm certainly not a writer. Nor do I want publicity My wife gets enough of that for both of us!

If my wife gets the modeling contracts I'm hoping for, and I can retire, then it may be a different story! (keep fingers crossed!)

Matt

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by MP38

Thanks Don. I appreciate your comments.

I understand your points. However, I guess I'm just a little sensitive to criticism sometimes.
However, I've always been willing to help out fellow collectors though. (just like Mitch on this thread)

What book did you write? I'll have to check it out.

I'll also add a 4th reason, and that is that I'm certainly not a writer. Nor do I want publicity My wife gets enough of that for both of us!

If my wife gets the modeling contracts I'm hoping for, and I can retire, then it may be a different story! (keep fingers crossed!)

Matt

The Japanese T 99 Arisaka Rifle and co-author of
Knee Mortars of Japan.

[MP38]

Thanks Don. That's probably why I never saw your book, as I really don't dive into Japanese weapons. (except for a few swords, which I am certainly no expert on!)

I think a friend of mine has that book though. I'll check it out next time I see him.

Thanks,

Matt

[lugerholsterrepair]

Matt..Yes, I always appreciate your help!

If my wife gets the modeling contracts I'm hoping for, and I can retire, then it may be a different story! (keep fingers crossed!)

UHHH I hate to ask but..modeling contracts..leads one to envision one thing but it could very well be another. Is it one thing or another?

[MP38]

Jerry,

Thank you. I appreciate your help as well!
Sent you a PM for your question as it doesn't really deal with holsters or this thread.

Matt

[PalmTree2]

Thank you gentlemen for the info.

Mitch