1911 question

Stu · 02-12-2006, 09:18 AM

Hi all. I've come into possession of a bunch of parts for a 1911 as part of a trade.

The slide is a Remington Rand, dark green / grey, (olive ?), finish in good condition, (some silvering on the edges but otherwise looks good). I believe the other parts of a complete gun are in the box and period, with the exception of the frame, mainspring housing, slide stop and grips.

I'm under the impression the RR only made 1911's during the war ? I'd really like to find a period frame and pieces to build up a budget shooter.

Knowing nothing about 1911's I wonder if this is a practical proposition and where to start looking, (off to ebay in a moment !).

I found the 1911 forum but it seems a bit oriented towards the modern. Is there an equivalent 1911 site to this forum ?

Many thanks for any suggestions,

Stu

Update, browsed ebay and it seems the only thing which is going to be difficult is the frame. Anyone any ideas and how $$$$ ?

George Anderson · 02-12-2006, 10:09 AM

Try Jack English, he's right in your neighborhood.

Stu · 02-12-2006, 10:23 AM

Thanks George. Not familiar with gentleman; any contact info ?

Stu

Edward Tinker · 02-12-2006, 11:36 AM

Stu, I can help.

Remington Rands were made from about 1943 to the end of the war. They only made 1911A1's.

Frames are very expensive, i have all the parts but a GI frame. Essentially you have to either buy a junker 1911A1 and strip it and use it, or may find a frame, or you buy an aftermarket such as from Essex and build a 1911.

Go to this and then go down to USGI, that has everything you want to learn. You can see a couple of posts by 66mustang, that is me.

http://forums.1911forum.com/

PS: I am no expert, but have a couple of 1911 / Colt books..

Ed

Stu · 02-12-2006, 12:37 PM

Hi Ed. Thanks very much. I'm thinking I'll try to find a mil spec frame and take it from there.

Is there any value in a Remington Rand top end in it's own right do you think ?

Stu

Edward Tinker · 02-12-2006, 12:41 PM

yes, a rem rand slide is worth $125-$200, depending on who's buying, condition, etc. I have an almost brand new one that i kind of hate to use, but thought what the heck...

Rem Rand slides are the most common ones found, reason is that Rem Rand had the contract to supply spares, so they made up a ton of them.

I picked up two complete, nice, Rem Rands over the last year, paid around $800 each, going rate for a shooter is over $600 and most are $800-$1000 (aresenal rebuilds, originals are 2x), very comparable to lugers.

Ed

Herb · 02-12-2006, 12:43 PM

Stu, this might help....
http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd....rSuperSKU=&MC=

Stu · 02-12-2006, 01:22 PM

Thanks guys, interesting stuff. The Numrich frame would do the job, wonder if I can find something locally for that price.

Need to ponder the right course....

Stu

Edward Tinker · 02-12-2006, 02:22 PM

I would order an Essex, had one at one time, was a good gun. I need to pick up another, I am using a Mitchel frame, not happy with it...

Ed

southriv · 02-13-2006, 12:01 AM

Try Caspian. Ask for Gary Smith. They are generally acknowledged as far superior to Essex. They are the leaders in the manufacture for aftermarket 1911 frames. If you find a WWI 1911 frame (as opposed to 1911A1) they have a "classic " frame to go with those, too.

http://www.caspianarms.com

Bob

Herb · 02-13-2006, 12:53 AM

Ok, as long as we are on 1911's I have a Colt 1911, made in 1918, so I guess it's a 1911a1(?) is anyone here good enough on them to give me an estimate of it's value if I post some pics? I'll even accept a link to someone (thing) where I can get that info.

Edward Tinker · 02-13-2006, 12:59 AM

Herb, e-mail me, I can help, look it up, etc...

A 1918 is still a 1911, unless it was modified...

weimar_lugers@comcast.net

Mike Fitz · 02-13-2006, 03:42 AM

Frames available from SARCO.

http://www.sarcoinc.com/pistols-frames.html

Mike

Mike Fitz · 02-13-2006, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Herb
Ok, as long as we are on 1911's I have a Colt 1911, made in 1918, so I guess it's a 1911a1(?)

Hi Herb,

Even though manufactured in 1918 it is still a Model 1911.

According to Clawson, first attempts to improve the Model 1911 took place on 9/15/1920.
Ordnance Department proposed the following:
Shorten the hammer to eliminate pinching of the hand: and
Reduce length of the trigger.

This endeavor evolved into further proposals which included extending the grip safety comb (tang), create a "hump" on the mainspring housing and mill finger clearance cuts on the sides of the receiver behind the trigger.
The lengthened grip safety comb / tang was ultimately adopted instead of shortening the hammer.

The proposed changes were finally approved on April 20, 1923.
The modified pistols were then designated "Improved Model of 1911" and commonly referred to as the "Transition Models".

On May 20, 1926 the improved pistol was officially designated, Pistol, Automatic, Caliber .45, M1911A1.

Regards,
Mike

southriv · 02-13-2006, 06:21 PM

Herb,

I know 1911s & 1918 models fairly well. Have a couple and have had several others. Be glad to take a look at some pics, etc.

Bob

Stu · 02-13-2006, 07:36 PM

Thanks for all the advice.

I'll be going for an economical solution, so I'll check out the offerings.

Stu

pipeman45 · 02-14-2006, 10:55 AM

Might want to look around for one of the Chinese copys too. You could strip it for the frame and sell the rest.I've been told that they are mil-spec and the quaility isn't that bad either. I've seen them priced for under $300 for the complete gun.

Herb · 02-14-2006, 07:00 PM

I finally was able to get a few shots of my 1911, I would appreciate a guess at it's value.

I would guess that it has about 60% of its coloring left but really thin and gone in some places. No dings/dents/scratches. Grips look really nice.

trigger643 · 02-14-2006, 08:59 PM

Ed, Well, there goes a chance to dump your mitchel frame... glen

trigger643 · 02-14-2006, 09:07 PM

Hello Herb, Not having my books handy, I'd say that's a fine 1918 vintage 1911 that has been updated to 1911A1 with grips, back strap and grip safety. That being said, it needs to be broken down and identify the barrel. I didn't see a rebuild inspectors stamp on the photos you provided, so these items may have been updated at anytime by anyone. The correct barrel and misc parts will also come into play valuing it, but at first and 2nd glances I'd hazzard $750-1100, the high end being the buyer with the correct parts in his bin to restore it to as issued.

You can send it to me and Ed and we'll be glad to function test it for a few thousand rounds.

02-12-2006, 09:18 AM	#1
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	1911 question Hi all. I've come into possession of a bunch of parts for a 1911 as part of a trade. The slide is a Remington Rand, dark green / grey, (olive ?), finish in good condition, (some silvering on the edges but otherwise looks good). I believe the other parts of a complete gun are in the box and period, with the exception of the frame, mainspring housing, slide stop and grips. I'm under the impression the RR only made 1911's during the war ? I'd really like to find a period frame and pieces to build up a budget shooter. Knowing nothing about 1911's I wonder if this is a practical proposition and where to start looking, (off to ebay in a moment !). I found the 1911 forum but it seems a bit oriented towards the modern. Is there an equivalent 1911 site to this forum ? Many thanks for any suggestions, Stu Update, browsed ebay and it seems the only thing which is going to be difficult is the frame. Anyone any ideas and how $$$$ ?

02-12-2006, 12:43 PM	#7
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Stu, this might help.... http://www.e-gunparts.com/DisplayAd....rSuperSKU=&MC= __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

02-12-2006, 02:22 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	I would order an Essex, had one at one time, was a good gun. I need to pick up another, I am using a Mitchel frame, not happy with it... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-13-2006, 12:53 AM	#11
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ok, as long as we are on 1911's I have a Colt 1911, made in 1918, so I guess it's a 1911a1(?) is anyone here good enough on them to give me an estimate of it's value if I post some pics? I'll even accept a link to someone (thing) where I can get that info. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

02-13-2006, 12:59 AM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Herb, e-mail me, I can help, look it up, etc... A 1918 is still a 1911, unless it was modified... weimar_lugers@comcast.net __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-12-2006, 10:09 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Try Jack English, he's right in your neighborhood.

02-12-2006, 10:23 AM	#3
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Thanks George. Not familiar with gentleman; any contact info ? Stu

02-12-2006, 11:36 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	Stu, I can help. Remington Rands were made from about 1943 to the end of the war. They only made 1911A1's. Frames are very expensive, i have all the parts but a GI frame. Essentially you have to either buy a junker 1911A1 and strip it and use it, or may find a frame, or you buy an aftermarket such as from Essex and build a 1911. Go to this and then go down to USGI, that has everything you want to learn. You can see a couple of posts by 66mustang, that is me. http://forums.1911forum.com/ PS: I am no expert, but have a couple of 1911 / Colt books.. Ed

02-12-2006, 12:37 PM	#5
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Ed. Thanks very much. I'm thinking I'll try to find a mil spec frame and take it from there. Is there any value in a Remington Rand top end in it's own right do you think ? Stu

02-12-2006, 12:41 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,028 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	yes, a rem rand slide is worth $125-$200, depending on who's buying, condition, etc. I have an almost brand new one that i kind of hate to use, but thought what the heck... Rem Rand slides are the most common ones found, reason is that Rem Rand had the contract to supply spares, so they made up a ton of them. I picked up two complete, nice, Rem Rands over the last year, paid around $800 each, going rate for a shooter is over $600 and most are $800-$1000 (aresenal rebuilds, originals are 2x), very comparable to lugers. Ed

02-12-2006, 01:22 PM	#8
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Thanks guys, interesting stuff. The Numrich frame would do the job, wonder if I can find something locally for that price. Need to ponder the right course.... Stu

02-13-2006, 12:01 AM	#10
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Try Caspian. Ask for Gary Smith. They are generally acknowledged as far superior to Essex. They are the leaders in the manufacture for aftermarket 1911 frames. If you find a WWI 1911 frame (as opposed to 1911A1) they have a "classic " frame to go with those, too. http://www.caspianarms.com Bob

02-13-2006, 03:42 AM	#13
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frames available from SARCO. http://www.sarcoinc.com/pistols-frames.html Mike

02-13-2006, 06:21 PM	#15
southriv User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Countryside New England Posts: 148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Herb, I know 1911s & 1918 models fairly well. Have a couple and have had several others. Be glad to take a look at some pics, etc. Bob

02-13-2006, 07:36 PM	#16
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Thanks for all the advice. I'll be going for an economical solution, so I'll check out the offerings. Stu

02-14-2006, 10:55 AM	#17
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Might want to look around for one of the Chinese copys too. You could strip it for the frame and sell the rest.I've been told that they are mil-spec and the quaility isn't that bad either. I've seen them priced for under $300 for the complete gun. __________________ Dave

02-14-2006, 07:00 PM	#18
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I finally was able to get a few shots of my 1911, I would appreciate a guess at it's value. I would guess that it has about 60% of its coloring left but really thin and gone in some places. No dings/dents/scratches. Grips look really nice. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

02-14-2006, 08:59 PM	#19
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Ed, Well, there goes a chance to dump your mitchel frame... glen __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

02-14-2006, 09:07 PM	#20
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Hello Herb, Not having my books handy, I'd say that's a fine 1918 vintage 1911 that has been updated to 1911A1 with grips, back strap and grip safety. That being said, it needs to be broken down and identify the barrel. I didn't see a rebuild inspectors stamp on the photos you provided, so these items may have been updated at anytime by anyone. The correct barrel and misc parts will also come into play valuing it, but at first and 2nd glances I'd hazzard $750-1100, the high end being the buyer with the correct parts in his bin to restore it to as issued. You can send it to me and Ed and we'll be glad to function test it for a few thousand rounds. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown