unethical parts switcher needs #54 sideplate.

lugerholsterrepair · 04-10-2002, 07:35 PM

I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at the reply given by Marney Walsh to Wayne Heckert. Both of these Gentlemen have their points but geeze guys, it's a national pastime for Luger collectors to mix and match, looking for that elusive numbered part. I am aware there are two types of collectors and I have to admit I have a 1940 Mauser that is in need of #54 sideplate and I can shout to the World that when I find it I will put it on this pistol and it will be the better for it. No. I am not trying to hoodwink the collecting fraturnity but it does not have a sideplate at present and I am hopeing that this pistol will someday be complete. Would I better serve the Luger collectors by putting a mismatched sideplate on it? I don't know. Nothing is as it started out and I have to say Marney Walsh said it pretty well in general. As most of you know I repair Luger Holsters. I repair them pretty much so that no one can tell the repair has been made and I do not mark them in any way. Does that make me a forger? No, in my opinion that makes me a holster repairman.Holsters have been repaired over the years with everything from bent over nails to epoxy glue and most people want to bring them back to what they once were. I don't think every little change in the condition of a piece is with the intent to defraud and decieve for big profits. Yes there are people who do this but the average guy who wants to match a sideplate is not one of these henious forgers. So a matching sideplate adds $200. to the value. I got news for you. Taking the time and trouble to search out and buy a matching sideplate is probably worth the extra money. It's an original part and might even be the one that came off of it! Some were numbered on the inside and some were not. Now ,there is an interprising fellow in Germany who will sell you a sideplate numbered to your pistol with the correct die. That, is fraud and deception. My 2 cents worth...Jerry Burney

Dan Clemons · 04-10-2002, 09:26 PM

When it comes to forgeries, I am beginning to believe there are a lot more of them floating around than any of us are willing to admit. I really don't know what or who to believe anymore. However, I can say this. The lower the price the less likelihood of finding a forgery. A correctly numbered side plate on my $650 shooter will not add much to my already blued, beautifully griped by Hugh Clark, and shoots straight as an arrow 1939 Mauser. I am relatively new to collecting Lugers and am frightened by what I see.

My 2 cents,

Dan

Lonnie Zimmerman · 04-10-2002, 09:26 PM

Jerry; I agree in ALL respects.

Lonnie

04-10-2002, 10:36 PM

I need a sideplate # 64 plus a takedown lever numbered the same to complete a dipped Russian Import 1921 unit and Import marked Luger. Just for the fun of it I looked at the Classifieds, check on the number of side plates people are looking for. I guess we are all unethical. I am sure the kind getleman probably has side plates for all of us that need them but he won't sell. Why? Is it possible he needs them to complete some mismatched Lugers that he is going to purchase? Don't call us unethical.

JAMES · 04-11-2002, 02:06 AM

Big Norm · 04-11-2002, 05:45 AM

Jerry,

I regard myself as a purist, but I agree with you. I only regard someone as unethical when they physically change the metal markings on the gun or magazine. Or do something like altering a military Luger by replacing the rear toggle and re-barreling. Then trying to pass it off as a real navy. I don't necessarily disagree with someone doing an excellent job of restoration either. But I do get disgusted when someone turns a buffing wheel loose on a Luger.

By the way, does anyone have a model 1914, navy, wide lip, rear hinge pin that they could spare?

Big Norm

Marvin · 04-11-2002, 06:48 AM

Hello Jerry,

I was out of town yesterday and just saw your posting. I also have to agree with you about finding the correct numbered part for a pistol. It is not that easy to do, but once in a while it happens. I have a 1939 Mauser Banner Police which is import marked, but not dip blued. The sideplate was original, but someone had done a little gringing on the top of the sideplate. I did find a matching numbered sideplate for the pistol, I bought it, and installed it. The blue matches perfectly and if you did not know, it would appear to be the one that came with the pistol. It probably did not add much value to the pistol, but it sure looks better to me. The original sideplate is in a very small ziplock bag hangin next to the pistol and will go with it if it is ever sold.

I like the all originals too, but many on market and in collections have been professionaly restored and when sold, are almost impossible to tell they are not original.

marvin

Luke · 04-11-2002, 07:07 AM

04-11-2002, 09:43 AM

Hi Jerry,

I have an imported 1940 Mauser shooter that could use a sideplate also. The original had been replace with another plate and the number was scratch out on it clear down into the metal. The way I look at it I have three choices.

1. I can leave it as is, which the sideplate will still look very bad.

2. I can try to find a sideplate that either has the correct number or any other number on it or an unnumber sideplate.

3. Have Thor do his magic on it. I believe Thor would have to remove a lot of metal to get this to look good again.

What should I do? I think I would rather replace it. Why? So that it would look as good as it can be. Call me unethical, I just want my Luger to look good, not that any Luger doesn't look just fine anyway.Just my .02.

Have a good day.

Sid.

Herb · 04-11-2002, 02:36 PM

Well as long as we are being unethical, I need a sideplate with 02 on it. Will trade mine with 264 stamped on it, or cash for 02. It's for my "mystery Luger" the arsenel refinished Bulgarian with no proofs, no dates, nothing but numbers.

Thor · 04-11-2002, 02:52 PM

Think about this, these guns are some 50-80 years old, how many people have had their paws on them before us, not very likely that all are pristine original condition, The original as issued Luger is more rare than most believe. It becomes almost a forensic science to determine originality. Thor

Johnny Peppers · 04-11-2002, 06:57 PM

Herb,

The three digits instead of two on the sideplate is common to the Model 1900 Bulgarians, but also shows up on other Model 1900's starting somewhere around serial number 10,000.

04-10-2002, 07:35 PM	#1
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,866 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	unethical parts switcher needs #54 sideplate. I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at the reply given by Marney Walsh to Wayne Heckert. Both of these Gentlemen have their points but geeze guys, it's a national pastime for Luger collectors to mix and match, looking for that elusive numbered part. I am aware there are two types of collectors and I have to admit I have a 1940 Mauser that is in need of #54 sideplate and I can shout to the World that when I find it I will put it on this pistol and it will be the better for it. No. I am not trying to hoodwink the collecting fraturnity but it does not have a sideplate at present and I am hopeing that this pistol will someday be complete. Would I better serve the Luger collectors by putting a mismatched sideplate on it? I don't know. Nothing is as it started out and I have to say Marney Walsh said it pretty well in general. As most of you know I repair Luger Holsters. I repair them pretty much so that no one can tell the repair has been made and I do not mark them in any way. Does that make me a forger? No, in my opinion that makes me a holster repairman.Holsters have been repaired over the years with everything from bent over nails to epoxy glue and most people want to bring them back to what they once were. I don't think every little change in the condition of a piece is with the intent to defraud and decieve for big profits. Yes there are people who do this but the average guy who wants to match a sideplate is not one of these henious forgers. So a matching sideplate adds $200. to the value. I got news for you. Taking the time and trouble to search out and buy a matching sideplate is probably worth the extra money. It's an original part and might even be the one that came off of it! Some were numbered on the inside and some were not. Now ,there is an interprising fellow in Germany who will sell you a sideplate numbered to your pistol with the correct die. That, is fraud and deception. My 2 cents worth...Jerry Burney

04-10-2002, 09:26 PM	#2
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #99 sideplate. When it comes to forgeries, I am beginning to believe there are a lot more of them floating around than any of us are willing to admit. I really don't know what or who to believe anymore. However, I can say this. The lower the price the less likelihood of finding a forgery. A correctly numbered side plate on my $650 shooter will not add much to my already blued, beautifully griped by Hugh Clark, and shoots straight as an arrow 1939 Mauser. I am relatively new to collecting Lugers and am frightened by what I see. My 2 cents, Dan

04-10-2002, 09:26 PM	#3
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #54 sideplate. Jerry; I agree in ALL respects. Lonnie

04-10-2002, 10:36 PM	#4
Tracy Guest Posts: n/a	Re: I need # 64 . I need a sideplate # 64 plus a takedown lever numbered the same to complete a dipped Russian Import 1921 unit and Import marked Luger. Just for the fun of it I looked at the Classifieds, check on the number of side plates people are looking for. I guess we are all unethical. I am sure the kind getleman probably has side plates for all of us that need them but he won't sell. Why? Is it possible he needs them to complete some mismatched Lugers that he is going to purchase? Don't call us unethical.

04-11-2002, 05:45 AM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #54 sideplate. Jerry, I regard myself as a purist, but I agree with you. I only regard someone as unethical when they physically change the metal markings on the gun or magazine. Or do something like altering a military Luger by replacing the rear toggle and re-barreling. Then trying to pass it off as a real navy. I don't necessarily disagree with someone doing an excellent job of restoration either. But I do get disgusted when someone turns a buffing wheel loose on a Luger. By the way, does anyone have a model 1914, navy, wide lip, rear hinge pin that they could spare? Big Norm

04-11-2002, 02:06 AM	#5
JAMES User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lynn, Mass. Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #58 sideplate.(EOM) (EOM)

04-11-2002, 06:48 AM	#7
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #54 sideplate. Hello Jerry, I was out of town yesterday and just saw your posting. I also have to agree with you about finding the correct numbered part for a pistol. It is not that easy to do, but once in a while it happens. I have a 1939 Mauser Banner Police which is import marked, but not dip blued. The sideplate was original, but someone had done a little gringing on the top of the sideplate. I did find a matching numbered sideplate for the pistol, I bought it, and installed it. The blue matches perfectly and if you did not know, it would appear to be the one that came with the pistol. It probably did not add much value to the pistol, but it sure looks better to me. The original sideplate is in a very small ziplock bag hangin next to the pistol and will go with it if it is ever sold. I like the all originals too, but many on market and in collections have been professionaly restored and when sold, are almost impossible to tell they are not original. marvin

04-11-2002, 07:07 AM	#8
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Making Navys from Commercials is not just unethical; it is CRIMINAL. (EOM)

04-11-2002, 09:43 AM	#9
Sid Gariss Guest Posts: n/a	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #14 sideplate. Hi Jerry, I have an imported 1940 Mauser shooter that could use a sideplate also. The original had been replace with another plate and the number was scratch out on it clear down into the metal. The way I look at it I have three choices. 1. I can leave it as is, which the sideplate will still look very bad. 2. I can try to find a sideplate that either has the correct number or any other number on it or an unnumber sideplate. 3. Have Thor do his magic on it. I believe Thor would have to remove a lot of metal to get this to look good again. What should I do? I think I would rather replace it. Why? So that it would look as good as it can be. Call me unethical, I just want my Luger to look good, not that any Luger doesn't look just fine anyway.Just my .02. Have a good day. Sid.

04-11-2002, 02:36 PM	#10
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #14 sideplate. Well as long as we are being unethical, I need a sideplate with 02 on it. Will trade mine with 264 stamped on it, or cash for 02. It's for my "mystery Luger" the arsenel refinished Bulgarian with no proofs, no dates, nothing but numbers.

04-11-2002, 02:52 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: unethical parts switchers Think about this, these guns are some 50-80 years old, how many people have had their paws on them before us, not very likely that all are pristine original condition, The original as issued Luger is more rare than most believe. It becomes almost a forensic science to determine originality. Thor

04-11-2002, 06:57 PM	#12
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: unethical parts switcher needs #14 sideplate. Herb, The three digits instead of two on the sideplate is common to the Model 1900 Bulgarians, but also shows up on other Model 1900's starting somewhere around serial number 10,000.