Garfield's contribution to this Forum.

[Jan C Still]

Fellow collectors,
I returned from a trip to find that Garfield will no longer be posting on this Forum. This is his own choice.

I do not intend to defend Garfield for the statements he made in the post "Advice on Luger Purchase Requested". Clearly, these posts are not Garfield's finest on this Forum. For all his bluntness and honesty Garfield has his flaws.

Garfield has no motive of personal gain for the posts that he made on this Forum. However, he has contributed his exceptional Luger knowledge and significant time to the great benefit of this Forum. He may be blunt and crusty in his comments, but he got his point across.

Garfield has done more than anyone else to counteract the believe anything the seller says attitude that some seller apologists on this forum advocate. He conveyed standards to detect boosted lugers. Recent events on this Forum strongly support his wisdom. This will pay for itself every time a less experienced Forum collector buys a luger.
Jan

[wterrell]

Jan,

Tell Bill that this is totally unacceptable. Alaskans are tougher than that and laugh at derision. (Ha, Ha)

We will expect a post from him this PM.

[Edward Tinker]

So Garfield can dish it out, but doesn't have the guts to take it? [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Really Jan, Garfield has been a crusty son of a gun on several occasions, but to let "them" win is not very good, smart or fair.

We all need to think before we speak and I have been irritated at some of his comments to new members (I feel he has jumped on them too hard, even if some might have needed it) and to drop out is a bit like tossing the baby out with the wash water. If Garfield is going to jump verbally onto a forum member, wouldn't he expect to be chastised? On the other hand, several members have stated that he is usually correct and on target, with possibly being abrasive...

I personally have gotten irritated and told myself I would only lurk, but my character won't allow that, someone speaks up and I feel the "need" to answer or argue.

[lugerholsterrepair]

I must have been out buying beer...what happned? Garfield gone? I don't believe it! Tell me it aint so Bill. Took awhile to figure you out but everyone has an opinion. I enjoyed yours... I will miss your knowledge if you persist in this silliness. Jerry Burney

[Brandon]

I don't know why it has to be this way!... [img]frown.gif[/img]

[hermit]

At least if this were a face to face club a rude comment could be answered with a pop in the mouth. Just use a little etiquette when answering or you'll end up with a small clique discussing your same guns over and over again. Nuff said on the subject.

[Luke]

If Bill chooses not to return to the Forum, the loss of his knowledgeable comments, even if sometimes caustic, will be unfortunate for all of us. [img]frown.gif[/img]

Luke

[lugerholsterrepair]

I think all of this is really blown out of proportion. A newbie jumps into the deep end of the pool and Bill cuffed his ears for splashing water on him. So what? Bill didn't actually call anyone ignorant directly. As much as I think Bill is a little gruff I wouldn't trade him for some guy thinking about buying a Luger. Yes, I know, everyone should be treated with respect etc. but when you've been around the block and back and forth to a coupla wars you have to be a real pansy not to shrug off some rude comments that were really meant to educate in a backhanded way. Just how politically correct is this bunch anyway? I know I'm going to hell but all my friends will be there... Jerry Burney

[hermit]

You're right. This has gone too far. But like I said, if this was a personal situation I wonder just how many bruises these little cuffs would have cost the "cuffer". I'd think in a country where the guy next to you may be packing people would be more careful.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Hermit, Yes it as you say. If everyone were packing a six shooter it would be an awfully polite society I would think. This theory is played out often on freeways accross the land on a daily basis. Be that as it may, we are apt to say things on or in a chat room that we would not say to a fellows face for fear of the cuffing that you speak of. I agree there but....I still do not feel that what Bill said was so egregious as to cause irreprable harm to any but the fainthearted. Are we of an age where something like that cannot be laughed off as the backhanded humor it was intended for.? Granted it was a little on the curmudgony side of educational humor and unfortunately perpetrated on a newbie but come on...I am afraid we are becoming a nation where we cannot survive a few harsh words , much less the cuffings were were discussing. This makes for poor soldiers and a population who cannot and will not stand up to adversity. I guess I can see this country going down a path that will lead to no good end if we cannot stand up for ourselves and engage in a sharp and witty reply to Garfields jabs. Garfield is everywhere. We are sure to encounter him in all fascets of life. Why not learn to deal with this in a way that makes us men rather than relying on others to take up our cause? I lived with my Father untill I was 15 and left to find my way in this World. He did not suffer fools lightly and did not hesitate to point out my definciencies regularly. I suspect that Garfield may come from the same school of men. There is a big World out there, learn to take what comes and DEAL WITH IT. Jerry Burney

[ESU]

The bottom line is the newbie came to this site seeking assistance from people exactly like Garfield. Probably just like hundreds of others before him. Instead he gets cuffed or slapped or whatever you want to call it. I believe it was uncalled for . If Garfield wants to do that to someone he knows longer or personally than thats between them. However to pull the high and mighty act with a newcomer is in my opinion is wrong. As I stated in other posts the newbie is the guy we/you/Garfield should be encouraging , maybe he saves a Luger from the scrap heap, rusting away in some attic or heaven forbid turned in to the local police dept as part of one of these amnesty programs. From there it turns into a sewer cap somewhere . I hate to see Garfield leave , I believe his knowledge and expertise would better serve all of us if he stayed just with a little less sarcasm . Remember 9-11 ESU

[wterrell]

If we all had 'cookie-cutter' personalities, this would indeed be a dull forum. Garfield has his place here without modification of his personality.

[Edward Tinker]

Have to agree, although some comments might be irritating, that is why we as a forum work it out? All the same is far too boring for me [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[John Sabato]

[quote]Originally posted by Jan C. Still:
<strong>Fellow collectors,
I returned from a trip to find that Garfield will no longer be posting on this Forum. This is his own choice. </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Hello Jan, ...glad you are back! I appreciate the fact that you choose not to defend his behavior...and You are absolutely correct -- If he chooses not to post anymore, I too will be disappointed by the loss of technical knowledge and experience, but this IS HIS choice... and he can just as easily choose to return because the door wasn't locked behind him. No one has questioned Garfield's technical contributions to this forum, only the manner in which they were presented.

Garfield wasn't banned, but apparently has concluded that he isn't able to abide by the rules that are in place to protect all the forum members, and so he won't place himself in a position where he may draw fire for violations of the same membership protocol that binds us all...

That is indeed unfortunate. [img]frown.gif[/img] I hope Bill changes his mind and does more than lurk here...

but if he does, I can assure you that it won't be because the rules have changed to accomodate his unique style of abrasiveness... If we do that for him, then there are no rules worth posting or enforcing, and all we have left is anarchy... I am sorry, but that won't happen here, at least not on my watch.

When each member registers to request permission to participate in this forum, they must agree up front to be bound by the terms and conditions of service, and the forum decorum... Agreement to these terms is not an option if you want to participate in the discussions. Bill agreed, but on several occassions he didn't comply. He also didn't heed privately communicated warnings on at least two occasions that he had stepped over the line, and that should choose his words more carefully...

My (strictly volunteer) job as site moderator here is to maintain order and enforce the rules as they have been explained to me, and under which I have also personally agreed to operate... sort of a Sergeant-at-Arms here in the clubhouse...The individual forum moderators have also agreed to the same conditions.

I didn't ban Bill Garrison, but I rightly warned him for a third time that unless his behavior is going to conform with posted policy on this site, that he needed to look elsewhere for a place to discuss Lugers.

I don't apologize for my decision or actions because they were warranted...Anyone who believes that they can do a better job than I am doing as site moderator is certainly welcome to apply...

<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

[Rjennings]

As one of the Newbies jumped upon, I don't think Garfield should go away. No matter how harsh or crusty, his expertise is valuable. If you read between the lines, the ones that intimate you don't have the brains to collect, there is a wealth of knowledge. I now have three Lugers and am much the better for his chastisment. I also now own every book that is suggested for the informed collector. He was right, read, read, read! I hope he continues on the forum. Robert

[lugerholsterrepair]

Robert, Awfully gracious of you to extend that welcome having been through what you have, a rough beginning.

John, Your job is like the Presidents, Who in their right mind would take it on? I agree with everything you say and do, I wish Bill would mellow a little and join us. Of course I can wish in one hand and Ship Higher In Transit in another too. Jerry Burney

[wterrell]

Robert,

You are a stand-up fellow.

[John Sabato]

[quote]Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair:
<strong> Of course I can wish in one hand and Ship Higher In Transit in another too. Jerry Burney</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jerry... in order to save typing, or even speaking, perhaps you could come up with an acronym for that expression

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Herb]

John, add to the expression--"and see which one fills up first" I first heard this expression about 50 years ago. If you are confused read only the first letter of each word, there you will find the 'acronym'.

[John Sabato]

Herb... you obviously missed my smilie face at the end of the post. I am quite familiar with the acronym and have been aware of it for at least 50 years [img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I was pulling RON's leg...