Numbers under sight of DWMs

barr44 · 01-11-2010, 04:06 PM

I have three 1917 DWM artillery lugers. After reading one of the previous posts I noticed that there was a reference made to the numbers under the rear sights on the artillery models. All of my artillery lugers have four digit serial numbers.
I checked mine and found out that there are numbers there but they do not exactly match the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. There are four digit numbers under the sight but only the last two numbers match the last two numbers on the bottom of the barrel and these same matching numbers are on the sights. I have also noticed a two digit number on the sight base itself that seems to match the first two digits of the number under the sight.
I suspect that as the barrels were manufactured they were given a specific number. This leads me to believe that the sights were possibly being manufactured in another department and given a specific number, to coincide with numbers on the barrels. I would think that this manufacturing was ongoing in relatively the same time frame. Later a sight was assigned to a barrel and then later the barrel and sight were assigned to a frame assembly and given the serial number of the frame.
This is purely what I can determine from the guns I have been able to exam. Of course I'm not sure what would be the case in the lowered number guns of single or double digit serial numbers.
I would appreciate any thoughts of those who could possibly shed some light on this number sequence.
Thanks to all, barr

Kitkat041836 · 01-11-2010, 06:13 PM

I have a 1917 artillery serial #852.It has a fine tuned sight front and rear.The front sight has the last two numbers 52 on it.The rear sight base has 52 in the top left corner and 84 in
the lower right corner.Under the sight base are the nunbers
8452. The bottom of the barrel also has the numbers 852.
Hope this helps anwser your question.
Yours Kitkat041836

Thor · 01-11-2010, 06:20 PM

Have a 1916 DWM Artillery Luger in for restoration to take off the overbuff salt blue, SN is 4337a. Number on top of the barrel under the rear sight at 4337.

George Anderson · 01-11-2010, 10:06 PM

You're close barr but not quite on it.

alvin · 01-12-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitkat041836

I have a 1917 artillery serial #852.It has a fine tuned sight front and rear.The front sight has the last two numbers 52 on it.The rear sight base has 52 in the top left corner and 84 in
the lower right corner.Under the sight base are the nunbers
8452. The bottom of the barrel also has the numbers 852.
Hope this helps anwser your question.
Yours Kitkat041836

Sound like 52 controls installation fitting of the sight leaf on the barrel, and 84 controls the matching of the leaf notch position and sight ramp elevation.

Make any sense?

Please also note the year. 1916 as mentioned by Thor, and 1917s as mentioned by you guys. If above makes a little sense, it was an improvement -- in my imagination, two seperate matchings was more productive than single matching.

Vlim · 01-12-2010, 01:20 PM

1917 LP08 1162f has 11 28 on the sight base (11 on left side of screw, 28 on right side)

alvin · 01-12-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

1917 LP08 1162f has 11 28 on the sight base (11 on left side of screw, 28 on right side)

No 62 anywhere on the sight leaf?

FNorm · 01-12-2010, 08:16 PM

1917 LP.08 5771 ns adjustable sights: Base, L of screw an L, or an inverse T? Rt. of screw 35.
71 on L fwd base, and back almost under the notch.
A weak, maybe W and 357 on barrel under the sight.

1914 Erfurt LP.08: 5338 ns. 38 L front of base, 38 by the notch. Nothing else.

George Anderson · 01-12-2010, 08:50 PM

Erfurt LP08's follow a totally different pattern than the DWM's.

Vlim · 01-13-2010, 08:48 AM

Alvin,

Yes 62 at the usual places.

Lugerdoc · 01-13-2010, 11:09 AM

IMHO all LPO8 barrels were made by the Erfurt Arsenal, judging by the Erfurt Imperial Eagle on the right side rear. The number on top of barrel (under rear sight base) was their serialization. The SERIAL number under the barrel and the 3 numbered rear sight parts (last 2 digits of serial) were applied (post 1914) by DWM when gun was assembled. TH

barr44 · 01-13-2010, 04:44 PM

Lugerdoc,
Your opinion seems to coincide with what I have seen on my artillery lugers and makes sense to me. I didn't realize the barrels were all made by Erfurt.
All of your inputs are interesting and I thank all of you for your time and effort. Just another interesting piece of the puzzle.
It's astounding what one can learn from you folks.
Thanks again to all, barr.

George Anderson · 01-13-2010, 07:40 PM

Close but not quite on target.

alvin · 01-13-2010, 07:58 PM

"Let us ask, what was the truth"

-- Viceroy Lin's letter to Queen Victoria, 1839

barr44 · 01-14-2010, 06:15 PM

George,
You tend to arouse my curiosity. I am assuming(bad word, I know), that there is more to learn about these numbers. Would you care to share?
I realize from some of the other posts on the forum, that your knowledge carries a lot of weight. I would more than welcome your insights.
Thanks, barr

TCguy · 01-21-2010, 02:28 PM

I checked my two...I could see the numbers but could not read them very well...unless I took the sight completely off...and I am not about to do that after reading other posts on the difficulty of doing so..
Charlie

dmdave · 03-11-2010, 05:53 PM

Now you have my curiosity going. I just purchased my first Luger, which I assumed was not completely matching due to the rear sight numbers. I have a 1917 DWM sn 5993, with #4193 stamped on top of the barrel (I originally thought the numbers were stamped on the bottom of the rear sight, before I read this post and realized the sight base was open to the barrel below). The gun currently has a sight mounted on it with no markings, and the v-groove is machined as an integral part of the top leaf. However, another top portion of a rear sight was included with the pistol. It is stamped #41 on the underside of the leaf, as well as #93 on the top side of the leaf, #93 on the side of the sliding bar, and #93 on the back of the adjustable v-groove plate.
My guess would be the original sight base was damaged, and the whole rear sight was replaced with something not quite correct for this pistol, while retaining the original top portion out of good sense. Any thoughts or info on this would be appreciated. Thanks.
Dave.

01-11-2010, 04:06 PM	#1
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Numbers under sight of DWMs I have three 1917 DWM artillery lugers. After reading one of the previous posts I noticed that there was a reference made to the numbers under the rear sights on the artillery models. All of my artillery lugers have four digit serial numbers. I checked mine and found out that there are numbers there but they do not exactly match the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. There are four digit numbers under the sight but only the last two numbers match the last two numbers on the bottom of the barrel and these same matching numbers are on the sights. I have also noticed a two digit number on the sight base itself that seems to match the first two digits of the number under the sight. I suspect that as the barrels were manufactured they were given a specific number. This leads me to believe that the sights were possibly being manufactured in another department and given a specific number, to coincide with numbers on the barrels. I would think that this manufacturing was ongoing in relatively the same time frame. Later a sight was assigned to a barrel and then later the barrel and sight were assigned to a frame assembly and given the serial number of the frame. This is purely what I can determine from the guns I have been able to exam. Of course I'm not sure what would be the case in the lowered number guns of single or double digit serial numbers. I would appreciate any thoughts of those who could possibly shed some light on this number sequence. Thanks to all, barr

01-11-2010, 06:13 PM	#2
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	Numbers under artillery rear sight reply I have a 1917 artillery serial #852.It has a fine tuned sight front and rear.The front sight has the last two numbers 52 on it.The rear sight base has 52 in the top left corner and 84 in the lower right corner.Under the sight base are the nunbers 8452. The bottom of the barrel also has the numbers 852. Hope this helps anwser your question. Yours Kitkat041836

01-11-2010, 06:20 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Have a 1916 DWM Artillery Luger in for restoration to take off the overbuff salt blue, SN is 4337a. Number on top of the barrel under the rear sight at 4337. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-13-2010, 11:09 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	IMHO all LPO8 barrels were made by the Erfurt Arsenal, judging by the Erfurt Imperial Eagle on the right side rear. The number on top of barrel (under rear sight base) was their serialization. The SERIAL number under the barrel and the 3 numbered rear sight parts (last 2 digits of serial) were applied (post 1914) by DWM when gun was assembled. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-13-2010, 04:44 PM	#12
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Numbers? Lugerdoc, Your opinion seems to coincide with what I have seen on my artillery lugers and makes sense to me. I didn't realize the barrels were all made by Erfurt. All of your inputs are interesting and I thank all of you for your time and effort. Just another interesting piece of the puzzle. It's astounding what one can learn from you folks. Thanks again to all, barr.

01-11-2010, 10:06 PM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	You're close barr but not quite on it.

01-12-2010, 01:20 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	1917 LP08 1162f has 11 28 on the sight base (11 on left side of screw, 28 on right side)

01-12-2010, 08:16 PM	#8
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	1917 LP.08 5771 ns adjustable sights: Base, L of screw an L, or an inverse T? Rt. of screw 35. 71 on L fwd base, and back almost under the notch. A weak, maybe W and 357 on barrel under the sight. 1914 Erfurt LP.08: 5338 ns. 38 L front of base, 38 by the notch. Nothing else. Last edited by FNorm; 01-12-2010 at 08:17 PM. Reason: edit

01-12-2010, 08:50 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Erfurt LP08's follow a totally different pattern than the DWM's.

01-13-2010, 08:48 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Alvin, Yes 62 at the usual places.

01-13-2010, 07:40 PM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	Close but not quite on target.

01-13-2010, 07:58 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	"Let us ask, what was the truth" -- Viceroy Lin's letter to Queen Victoria, 1839

01-14-2010, 06:15 PM	#15
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 151 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Close but not quite? George, You tend to arouse my curiosity. I am assuming(bad word, I know), that there is more to learn about these numbers. Would you care to share? I realize from some of the other posts on the forum, that your knowledge carries a lot of weight. I would more than welcome your insights. Thanks, barr

01-21-2010, 02:28 PM	#16
TCguy User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: SW Oregon Posts: 22 Thanks: 7 Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post	I checked my two...I could see the numbers but could not read them very well...unless I took the sight completely off...and I am not about to do that after reading other posts on the difficulty of doing so.. Charlie

03-11-2010, 05:53 PM	#17
dmdave New User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Now you have my curiosity going. I just purchased my first Luger, which I assumed was not completely matching due to the rear sight numbers. I have a 1917 DWM sn 5993, with #4193 stamped on top of the barrel (I originally thought the numbers were stamped on the bottom of the rear sight, before I read this post and realized the sight base was open to the barrel below). The gun currently has a sight mounted on it with no markings, and the v-groove is machined as an integral part of the top leaf. However, another top portion of a rear sight was included with the pistol. It is stamped #41 on the underside of the leaf, as well as #93 on the top side of the leaf, #93 on the side of the sliding bar, and #93 on the back of the adjustable v-groove plate. My guess would be the original sight base was damaged, and the whole rear sight was replaced with something not quite correct for this pistol, while retaining the original top portion out of good sense. Any thoughts or info on this would be appreciated. Thanks. Dave.