Black Widow ( so called )

militaria · 06-29-2024, 12:10 PM

What would be the correct holster for a BYF Black Widow? Not sure I agree "there is no such thing..." Lugers side by side to this one overall are a different color...

Eugen · 06-29-2024, 03:00 PM

I have a 1942 BYF "black widow" Luger and a holster that came with it. Was the 1942 dated P.08 holster originally issued with the firearm? Well, possibly. There are a number of appropriate holsters that could have been issued with my or your BYF Luger.

Bill_in_VA · 06-29-2024, 03:24 PM

Many collectors consider a “correct” holster to be one of the same year, or within a year, of the pistol’s manufacture. I.e., a 1941 Luger would be correct in a 1940/41/42. And course, a police Luger would have a police style holster, etc.

militaria · 06-29-2024, 03:36 PM

I like the within 1 year theory. Makes sense.

Purchased a number of really nice holsters over the years.

militaria · 06-29-2024, 03:41 PM

My 1942 P08 Otto Koberstein Landsberg a.W (an der Warthe) should be good although it's not mint like the Luger

. Hard to read below the Waffenamt. Think WaA14

militaria · 06-29-2024, 06:20 PM

Thanks to all my other is Carl Hepting! Nearly impossible to read but with some letters voila!!!!

Edward Tinker · 06-29-2024, 08:39 PM

I'm in the Pacific NW also, but near Spokane.
I think the newer looking a luger is, then it is darker, age and handling make them less dark.
So, although a Black Widow can "LOOK" darker than one with wood grips, they are not any different, were not made for any specific groups like the SS or any other silly nonsense. Did they get issued to those folks, sure.

militaria · 06-29-2024, 09:41 PM

No question finish gets rubbed off. Perhaps BYF also had a darker finish they used at times?

gunbugs · Yesterday, 02:40 AM

BYF is the concealment code for Mauser-Werke. Same as an S/42 or 42 code or a Mauser "Banner". All the guns came off the same assembly line and went through the same blueing tanks. They went from the time consuming, labor intensive "rust blue" to the hot tank salt bath blueing in 1937. There are slight variations in color, but nothing specific to a BYF 42 gun, other than the black bakelite grips, which came about in '41 and continued into '42, although they were not used all the time. Many guns of those years were supplied with walnut or beech grips. "Black Widow" is a made up term, much like "assault rifle".

velodog455~ · Yesterday, 09:51 AM

True dat. In my limited experience there is a premium on any 1941 or '42 waffenamt-issued military holster just because they are correct for a black widow. Somewhat harder to find as well on that account.

I have a 1941 dated all correct holster that I found for $150, but it is really beat. It's OK because I have a shooter-grade byf 41 BW that does not justify an expensive holster.

FWIW, I have seen nice 41/42 examples go for $450 or more.
-Bob

Roadster 02 · Yesterday, 10:23 AM

I'm waiting for the "Brown Recluse" fad. The "Black Widow" mania has just been hilarious. Lemmings

Ford, there isn't any better.

militaria · Yesterday, 12:39 PM

I'm a lemming? Really? It's a discussion man we're not all as incredibly intelligent as you...

gunbugs · Yesterday, 01:37 PM

No offense meant. I'm sure it just bothers some that the Luger community has been bombarded with made up descriptions. Much like the seller on GB that has a "combat chromed" Luger. Or the "Grey Ghost" P-38's, or "Tanker" Garands. Heavy sigh. None of which actually were called that. Just invented names to make something common seem special. A so called "Black Widow" Luger is correctly described as a BYF '41 or '42 with Black bakelite grips. Actually one of the more common variations, akin to a 1940 42 code. Nothing more, nothing less.

militaria · Yesterday, 01:49 PM

I was just posting, asking, wondering. Sad is that some people behind a keyboard would not communicate in a room with 10 people like they do behind the veil of the Internet. Makes forums a very unrewarding visit. This isn't the only one obviously but toss this kind of posting.

gunbugs · Yesterday, 02:01 PM

I have to agree. Some folks will say things over the phone, or post things from the keyboard that they would never say to your face....

Vlim · Yesterday, 05:14 PM

Basically any military German P08 holster is fair game for any P08. The Germans truly did not care which pistol went in which holster and they were ordered separately anyway.

velodog455~ · Today, 08:20 AM

Perhaps the greatest thing about a true BW is that it holds its value and appreciates in value more than the pre-byf run-of-the-mill Mauser P.08's.

Lots of people know about the American origin of the name but that hasn't stopped them from wanting and buying one, even when they know the truth.

Even original phenolic grips for BW's are approaching what a decent shooter-grade P.08 is bringing.

Vlim · Today, 08:43 AM

The black widow is a fairy tale, plain and simple. And anyone paying a premium for those black grips needs his head examined.

Mac Cat · Today, 10:29 AM

My 42 byf came with a holster and unmarked loading tool.

The holster is a 1942 “DLU” Ewald Lunenschloss, Militareffekten-Fabrik, Solingen (formerly Eastern Germany, near Dusseldorf).
They are fairly common, from what I have seen.

References: Luger Holsters and Accessories of the 20th Century, Eugene J. Bender, p. 207 and
The Standard Directory of Proof Marks (WWII German Ordinance Codes) Gerhard Winsberger.

06-29-2024, 12:10 PM	#1
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Black Widow ( so called ) What would be the correct holster for a BYF Black Widow? Not sure I agree "there is no such thing..." Lugers side by side to this one overall are a different color... __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

06-29-2024, 03:00 PM	#2
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 776 Thanks: 379 Thanked 611 Times in 325 Posts	I have a 1942 BYF "black widow" Luger and a holster that came with it. Was the 1942 dated P.08 holster originally issued with the firearm? Well, possibly. There are a number of appropriate holsters that could have been issued with my or your BYF Luger. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

06-29-2024, 03:24 PM	#3
Bill_in_VA User Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 358 Thanks: 749 Thanked 531 Times in 189 Posts	Many collectors consider a “correct” holster to be one of the same year, or within a year, of the pistol’s manufacture. I.e., a 1941 Luger would be correct in a 1940/41/42. And course, a police Luger would have a police style holster, etc. __________________ John 8:32 reive (riːv) vb (Military) (intr) dialect Scot and Northern English to go on a plundering raid [variant of reave] ˈreiver n e.g., " Some view the Border Reivers as loveable rogues."

06-29-2024, 03:36 PM	#4
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I like the within 1 year theory. Makes sense. Purchased a number of really nice holsters over the years. __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

06-29-2024, 03:41 PM	#5
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	My 1942 P08 Otto Koberstein Landsberg a.W (an der Warthe) should be good although it's not mint like the Luger . Hard to read below the Waffenamt. Think WaA14 __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

06-29-2024, 06:20 PM	#6
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Thanks to all my other is Carl Hepting! Nearly impossible to read but with some letters voila!!!! __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

06-29-2024, 08:39 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,922 Thanks: 2,002 Thanked 4,513 Times in 2,085 Posts	I'm in the Pacific NW also, but near Spokane. I think the newer looking a luger is, then it is darker, age and handling make them less dark. So, although a Black Widow can "LOOK" darker than one with wood grips, they are not any different, were not made for any specific groups like the SS or any other silly nonsense. Did they get issued to those folks, sure. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-29-2024, 09:41 PM	#8
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	No question finish gets rubbed off. Perhaps BYF also had a darker finish they used at times? __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

Yesterday, 02:40 AM	#9
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 643 Thanks: 346 Thanked 1,157 Times in 384 Posts	BYF is the concealment code for Mauser-Werke. Same as an S/42 or 42 code or a Mauser "Banner". All the guns came off the same assembly line and went through the same blueing tanks. They went from the time consuming, labor intensive "rust blue" to the hot tank salt bath blueing in 1937. There are slight variations in color, but nothing specific to a BYF 42 gun, other than the black bakelite grips, which came about in '41 and continued into '42, although they were not used all the time. Many guns of those years were supplied with walnut or beech grips. "Black Widow" is a made up term, much like "assault rifle".

Yesterday, 09:51 AM	#10
velodog455~ User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 58 Thanks: 9 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	True dat. In my limited experience there is a premium on any 1941 or '42 waffenamt-issued military holster just because they are correct for a black widow. Somewhat harder to find as well on that account. I have a 1941 dated all correct holster that I found for $150, but it is really beat. It's OK because I have a shooter-grade byf 41 BW that does not justify an expensive holster. FWIW, I have seen nice 41/42 examples go for $450 or more. -Bob

Yesterday, 10:23 AM	#11
Roadster 02 User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Rocky Mountain High Posts: 309 Thanks: 172 Thanked 246 Times in 84 Posts	I'm waiting for the "Brown Recluse" fad. The "Black Widow" mania has just been hilarious. Lemmings Ford, there isn't any better. Last edited by Roadster 02; Today at 11:57 AM.

Yesterday, 12:39 PM	#12
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I'm a lemming? Really? It's a discussion man we're not all as incredibly intelligent as you... __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

Yesterday, 01:37 PM	#13
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 643 Thanks: 346 Thanked 1,157 Times in 384 Posts	No offense meant. I'm sure it just bothers some that the Luger community has been bombarded with made up descriptions. Much like the seller on GB that has a "combat chromed" Luger. Or the "Grey Ghost" P-38's, or "Tanker" Garands. Heavy sigh. None of which actually were called that. Just invented names to make something common seem special. A so called "Black Widow" Luger is correctly described as a BYF '41 or '42 with Black bakelite grips. Actually one of the more common variations, akin to a 1940 42 code. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yesterday, 01:49 PM	#14
militaria User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	I was just posting, asking, wondering. Sad is that some people behind a keyboard would not communicate in a room with 10 people like they do behind the veil of the Internet. Makes forums a very unrewarding visit. This isn't the only one obviously but toss this kind of posting. __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute.

Yesterday, 02:01 PM	#15
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 643 Thanks: 346 Thanked 1,157 Times in 384 Posts	I have to agree. Some folks will say things over the phone, or post things from the keyboard that they would never say to your face....

Yesterday, 05:14 PM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,052 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,967 Times in 1,203 Posts	Basically any military German P08 holster is fair game for any P08. The Germans truly did not care which pistol went in which holster and they were ordered separately anyway.

Today, 08:20 AM	#17
velodog455~ User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 58 Thanks: 9 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Perhaps the greatest thing about a true BW is that it holds its value and appreciates in value more than the pre-byf run-of-the-mill Mauser P.08's. Lots of people know about the American origin of the name but that hasn't stopped them from wanting and buying one, even when they know the truth. Even original phenolic grips for BW's are approaching what a decent shooter-grade P.08 is bringing.

Today, 08:43 AM	#18
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,052 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,967 Times in 1,203 Posts	The black widow is a fairy tale, plain and simple. And anyone paying a premium for those black grips needs his head examined.

Today, 10:29 AM	#19
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 687 Thanks: 2,038 Thanked 566 Times in 301 Posts	My 42 byf came with a holster and unmarked loading tool. The holster is a 1942 “DLU” Ewald Lunenschloss, Militareffekten-Fabrik, Solingen (formerly Eastern Germany, near Dusseldorf). They are fairly common, from what I have seen. References: Luger Holsters and Accessories of the 20th Century, Eugene J. Bender, p. 207 and The Standard Directory of Proof Marks (WWII German Ordinance Codes) Gerhard Winsberger.