new to me Luger-it needs help!!

sovblocgunfan · 03-27-2009, 10:11 PM

Hi, everyone,

I now possess a new-to-me Luger that I need some help with. I am working on photos, but am having difficulty getting the quality I need to post good ones for benefit of the forum.

While I work on that I've done some research. I know my way around a milsurp, but am new to Lugers. I've field stripped it but haven't detail stripped it due to condition problems. Here's what I've found so far:

1917 DWM, ser XX48 g series, mid-four digits. No second year stamp. What caliber is this in?
All numbers I've been able to find match. Last 2 ser # digits (all reading 48) in obvious view makes it a military pistol, based on FAQ found in this forum. Although wood-bottomed, the magazine does not show any visible markings that I can see. German wording on safety area and no "Germany" import stamp. No other import markings. A very few parts have N in circle stamped on them (front sight, etc). Pistol has four proof marks on right side of frame. There is a number M 13324 electropenciled on the front strap. Any ideas what this means? Any help in ID'ing this pistol further is greatly appreciated.

Overall, pistol is in generally poor condition and I am not sure it functions properly. Toggle action is syrupy and will not latch in place; will not return to battery without assistance. It appears the pistol was chromed a very long time ago. The chrome on the latch plate is beginning to crack and a small patch .25" in length is flaked away. Chrome finish = maybe 65%, with significant wear on user contact areas. Rust present over chrome in many places. Mag well has a fine coating of rust, which has transferred to the mag. Should a correct magazine for this pistol be blued or aluminum? Bore condition shows to be poor, although reflective of the overall condition of the gun. It will likely clean up significantly as little to no rifling shows at this time. Grips have not been removed yet, but the left one exhibits the million dollar chip and overall are heavily worn, matching the overall wear on the gun. Lots of nicks, etc on these, and the checkering around the backstrap is worn smooth. Someone has crudely carved the letter H on the left grip close just south of the frame.

The person I got it from says "it came from the war". If so it has been separated from its bringback papers, but knowing this person as I do it wouldn't surprise me if it were a legit bringback. He states the pistol stayed in the family after it was brought home, and he is the third family owner. Looks to me like I have a very neglected Luger that may have potential for a first-quality restoration. What do I have here? I have a couple of options on what to do with this pistol. 1: Clean it, repair it and shoot it. 2: Clean it, de-rust it, repair it, buy replacement parts to install and use while saving the originals, shoot it. 3: Give it a first class best-quality restoration. I figure the value is diminished significantly enough due to the rust and chrome that a restoration may actually be appropriate in this case because it appears to be all-matching. Opinions sought. HELP!

Thanks,
Justin

wlyon · 03-27-2009, 11:14 PM

Justin
With all the problems this luger has I would recommend making it useable and shooting it. It is not valuable enough or in the correct condition to restore. All you will have is an expensive shooter. It is amazing sometimes how well a poor barrel will shoot. Bill

lugerholsterrepair · 03-28-2009, 12:29 AM

Bill just gave you good advice in the short form..

What caliber is this in? Should be 9MM. See if a yellow pencil will drop into the barrel..If so..9MM.
There is a number M 13324 electropenciled on the front strap. Any ideas what this means? Yes, It means some bonehead ruined a good magazine.

Should a correct magazine for this pistol be blued or aluminum? The correct magazine is a sheet steel wood bottom. You should look for a MecGar if you want to shoot it.

The person I got it from says "it came from the war". Technicaly he's right but when it got here some GI took it to the chrome bumper shop and it went for a swim.

It probably could use a new set of Wolf springs a good cleaning and then enjoy shooting it.

Jerry Burney

sovblocgunfan · 03-28-2009, 07:50 AM

Thanks, y'all. IF value is that far gone, think anyone would have a problem w/ putting this in an electrolysis tank to remove the rust and chrome plate, then finishing the metal with something better so I can have a good shooter rather than a POS?

DavidJayUden · 03-28-2009, 08:38 AM

I'd go for it. Some platers offer re-heat treatment to counter of hydrogen embrittlement. But maybe the Doc could offer a definitive answer.
Unplate it, and you can bead blast/salt blue it for not much $. Straw coloring is an easy home job (as soon as your wife leaves for a few minutes). Repro. grips, MefGar mag.
By the time you spend a hundred or so and a few hours laboring over it you will have a fun shooter that you will be a part of.
Then start looking around for your next one.
DJU

wlyon · 03-28-2009, 08:41 AM

Justin
Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with cleaning it up. Happy shooting and welcome to the forum. Bill

Lugerdoc · 03-30-2009, 09:48 AM

SBGF, If your not versed in Lugers, I'd suggest having a qualified gunsmith clean off the rust, replace the springs and test fire for you to make sure that it is safe. You can always, refinish it late, if you so choose. TH

sovblocgunfan · 03-30-2009, 09:18 PM

Thanks, everyone! I detail stripped it and it is a mess. Looks like there may be rust under the chrome. Pitting is evident under the grips. Bore appears to be rough but will see how it turns out after EBC. It's too bad, b/c every single number matches, index marks are in place and I can see a little old bluing here and there. The good news is that it looks like there is a lot of dried oil, grease, and powder residue that is causing the action to be syrupy. That'll clean up and the new springs will give it even more life. It doesn't look like it's been cleaned since it was captured!!

Lugerdoc, thanks for your concern. I will have a GS check it out, but it looks a lot like some of the othermilsurps I've seen and I think this is going to make a good shooter project. For reference, I'm not above tackling one of the T53 Mosin Nagant carbines currently available from Omega Systems (I have a Romanian one, though)-right now a complete rifle is something like $35 to $50 but needs a large amount of cleaning and TLC. Check 'em out. They'll make you wanna be sick!

In another forum I belong to there are many of us who own Mosin Nagant rifles and have at least some pitting below the woodline-usually doesn't affect shootability if it isn't extensive or deep. Since the pitting I am seeing isn't in the breech block/firing mech. section (that actually is in much better condition!)I think I can dechrome it, dunk it in the electrolysis tank to de-rust, fill the pits w/ JB weld and sand smooth, then Duracoat in Gun Blue (don't flame me, purists!!-I'm trying to bring it back from the dead!!). Really, this pistol won't be decent with any kind of actual bluing (cold or hot) unless I dump some serious dough into it (which is not going to happen), so I will have to use a coating that will hide the repair. Bluing will just make it ugly and obvious and parking isn't an option.

Anyway, will post pics (poor quality, but better than none) along the way.

Thanks for the welcome,
Justin

sovblocgunfan · 03-31-2009, 10:50 PM

As promised-OK! I made an album. See here:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?u=6789

It's only a few pics but I hope they give a little idea of what I'm up against. The rust on the left side of the frame is actually worse than on the right. I left out the grips, but they are worn smooth in places and pretty chewed up in others-Hitler himself carved an "H" on the left one!

By the way, one of the small breech block parts has the word "Geladen" engraved on it. Does anyone know what that means?

Anyway, check out the photos and let me know what you think!

Justin

alanint · 03-31-2009, 11:13 PM

Justin,

"geladen" means "loaded" in German. When the extractor is raised by a round in the chamber, the word appears to indicate the loaded condition of the pistol.

Lugerdoc · 04-02-2009, 09:09 AM

Justin, It looks like you're future includes many hours of solvent and elbow grease to get this baby in operating condition. If I can be of assistance for parts, let me know, but I'll leave the cleaning labor up to you. Lugerdoc

sovblocgunfan · 04-02-2009, 03:55 PM

Alanint,

Thanks for the translation. I've not shot one of these, so I didn't know about that-is it visible to the shooter?

Doc,

Yes, I agree-I'm beginning to see what I'm in for re: cleaning, but it'll be worth it. Just looking at it makes you want to put everything in the parts washer and leave it there for a week or two. For all the rust and grime, though, the parts really don't seem all that worn except for the bore. I'm very interested to see what comes out of the electrolysis tank, though.

Justin

alanint · 04-02-2009, 04:24 PM

Justin,

The word "geladen" will be visible to the shooter from both sides when the breech is closed with a round in the chamber. Since the extractor is raised when a round is in the chamber it can also be felt in low light as an indicator of a loaded gun.

Ice · 04-02-2009, 06:57 PM

This will be a very interesting project. I kind of envy you because I like restorations - as in bringing the dead to life - a lot. Its been a hobby for years. I'll be very interested to see your progress on the old Luger.

Charlie

sovblocgunfan · 04-02-2009, 08:41 PM

Ice,

Thanks. We'll see. Where in Texas are you?

Depends on what you call restoration-I think the very best I can hope for is minor pitting only under the grip panels-if so I can do a good quality cold blue. I've done that before on an M44 and it turned out really well-using a dish detergent w/ phosphate really helps to set up the bluing.

Question for the field: can I replicate straw with a cold blue (OxphoBlue or blue wonder, likely), or is it limited to hot or rust bluing??

alanint · 04-02-2009, 09:50 PM

Justin,

Replicating straw is probably going to be the easiest part of your restoration. Search on the site here for the method to use.

policeluger · 04-02-2009, 11:08 PM

Justin, I wrote the straw sticky, get in touch with me if you need help......

Ice · 04-03-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovblocgunfan

Ice,

Thanks. We'll see. Where in Texas are you?

Depends on what you call restoration-I think the very best I can hope for is minor pitting only under the grip panels-if so I can do a good quality cold blue. I've done that before on an M44 and it turned out really well-using a dish detergent w/ phosphate really helps to set up the bluing.

Question for the field: can I replicate straw with a cold blue (OxphoBlue or blue wonder, likely), or is it limited to hot or rust bluing??

I live near Houston. The straw blueing sticky is excellent. Youtube has an interesting video on coloring gun parts with nitre blueing salts. Depending on temp you can get a straw color with that method too. The stick method here is much safer though IMHO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM_Z1Tax2k0

Charlie

sovblocgunfan · 04-03-2009, 06:09 PM

Ok y'all, first question for help.

I'm trying to drift out the coupling link pin so that I can separate the coupling link from the back half of the toggle assembly. So far it has defeated me.

It's not bent, b/c I have full travel, with no sticking. Part moves freely on its axis, with no histeresis (doesn't wobble). Is there a trick to it? Is there maybe a stop rim on one side of it, so that I might be trying to drift it out from the wrong side?

Also, after having started my detail cleaning I am finding some bluing underneath the rust I have been able to remove, and under some of the chrome plating that is starting to flake away. It's not great, but it's there, and the pitting may not be as bad as I feared. So, I am cautiously hopeful that I can do a good quality cold blue on this (yay!!), rather than coat it . So, here's what I need to know:

I've observed that there are three kinds of finishes on these guns, based on photos I've seen on this site: blued, blued/strawed, and in the white. Can someone point me to a list that tells me what parts are blued, what parts are strawed, and what remains in the white? If the option to blue is going to be put on the table, I want to make it appear proper and respectable. Thanks!

lugerholsterrepair · 04-03-2009, 06:23 PM

Justin, I'm trying to drift out the coupling link pin so that I can separate the coupling link from the back half of the toggle assembly. So far it has defeated me.

If I am not mistaken on the pin your talking about..it is held in place by a VERY small pin. You must look it over carefully and you may see it.

Jerry Burney

03-27-2009, 10:11 PM	#1
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	new to me Luger-it needs help!! Hi, everyone, I now possess a new-to-me Luger that I need some help with. I am working on photos, but am having difficulty getting the quality I need to post good ones for benefit of the forum. While I work on that I've done some research. I know my way around a milsurp, but am new to Lugers. I've field stripped it but haven't detail stripped it due to condition problems. Here's what I've found so far: 1917 DWM, ser XX48 g series, mid-four digits. No second year stamp. What caliber is this in? All numbers I've been able to find match. Last 2 ser # digits (all reading 48) in obvious view makes it a military pistol, based on FAQ found in this forum. Although wood-bottomed, the magazine does not show any visible markings that I can see. German wording on safety area and no "Germany" import stamp. No other import markings. A very few parts have N in circle stamped on them (front sight, etc). Pistol has four proof marks on right side of frame. There is a number M 13324 electropenciled on the front strap. Any ideas what this means? Any help in ID'ing this pistol further is greatly appreciated. Overall, pistol is in generally poor condition and I am not sure it functions properly. Toggle action is syrupy and will not latch in place; will not return to battery without assistance. It appears the pistol was chromed a very long time ago. The chrome on the latch plate is beginning to crack and a small patch .25" in length is flaked away. Chrome finish = maybe 65%, with significant wear on user contact areas. Rust present over chrome in many places. Mag well has a fine coating of rust, which has transferred to the mag. Should a correct magazine for this pistol be blued or aluminum? Bore condition shows to be poor, although reflective of the overall condition of the gun. It will likely clean up significantly as little to no rifling shows at this time. Grips have not been removed yet, but the left one exhibits the million dollar chip and overall are heavily worn, matching the overall wear on the gun. Lots of nicks, etc on these, and the checkering around the backstrap is worn smooth. Someone has crudely carved the letter H on the left grip close just south of the frame. The person I got it from says "it came from the war". If so it has been separated from its bringback papers, but knowing this person as I do it wouldn't surprise me if it were a legit bringback. He states the pistol stayed in the family after it was brought home, and he is the third family owner. Looks to me like I have a very neglected Luger that may have potential for a first-quality restoration. What do I have here? I have a couple of options on what to do with this pistol. 1: Clean it, repair it and shoot it. 2: Clean it, de-rust it, repair it, buy replacement parts to install and use while saving the originals, shoot it. 3: Give it a first class best-quality restoration. I figure the value is diminished significantly enough due to the rust and chrome that a restoration may actually be appropriate in this case because it appears to be all-matching. Opinions sought. HELP! Thanks, Justin

03-27-2009, 11:14 PM	#2
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Justin With all the problems this luger has I would recommend making it useable and shooting it. It is not valuable enough or in the correct condition to restore. All you will have is an expensive shooter. It is amazing sometimes how well a poor barrel will shoot. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-28-2009, 12:29 AM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Bill just gave you good advice in the short form.. What caliber is this in? Should be 9MM. See if a yellow pencil will drop into the barrel..If so..9MM. There is a number M 13324 electropenciled on the front strap. Any ideas what this means? Yes, It means some bonehead ruined a good magazine. Should a correct magazine for this pistol be blued or aluminum? The correct magazine is a sheet steel wood bottom. You should look for a MecGar if you want to shoot it. The person I got it from says "it came from the war". Technicaly he's right but when it got here some GI took it to the chrome bumper shop and it went for a swim. It probably could use a new set of Wolf springs a good cleaning and then enjoy shooting it. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-28-2009, 08:41 AM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,144 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Justin Can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with cleaning it up. Happy shooting and welcome to the forum. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-30-2009, 09:48 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	SBGF, If your not versed in Lugers, I'd suggest having a qualified gunsmith clean off the rust, replace the springs and test fire for you to make sure that it is safe. You can always, refinish it late, if you so choose. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-28-2009, 07:50 AM	#4
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, y'all. IF value is that far gone, think anyone would have a problem w/ putting this in an electrolysis tank to remove the rust and chrome plate, then finishing the metal with something better so I can have a good shooter rather than a POS?

03-28-2009, 08:38 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'd go for it. Some platers offer re-heat treatment to counter of hydrogen embrittlement. But maybe the Doc could offer a definitive answer. Unplate it, and you can bead blast/salt blue it for not much $. Straw coloring is an easy home job (as soon as your wife leaves for a few minutes). Repro. grips, MefGar mag. By the time you spend a hundred or so and a few hours laboring over it you will have a fun shooter that you will be a part of. Then start looking around for your next one. DJU

03-30-2009, 09:18 PM	#8
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, everyone! I detail stripped it and it is a mess. Looks like there may be rust under the chrome. Pitting is evident under the grips. Bore appears to be rough but will see how it turns out after EBC. It's too bad, b/c every single number matches, index marks are in place and I can see a little old bluing here and there. The good news is that it looks like there is a lot of dried oil, grease, and powder residue that is causing the action to be syrupy. That'll clean up and the new springs will give it even more life. It doesn't look like it's been cleaned since it was captured!! Lugerdoc, thanks for your concern. I will have a GS check it out, but it looks a lot like some of the othermilsurps I've seen and I think this is going to make a good shooter project. For reference, I'm not above tackling one of the T53 Mosin Nagant carbines currently available from Omega Systems (I have a Romanian one, though)-right now a complete rifle is something like $35 to $50 but needs a large amount of cleaning and TLC. Check 'em out. They'll make you wanna be sick! In another forum I belong to there are many of us who own Mosin Nagant rifles and have at least some pitting below the woodline-usually doesn't affect shootability if it isn't extensive or deep. Since the pitting I am seeing isn't in the breech block/firing mech. section (that actually is in much better condition!)I think I can dechrome it, dunk it in the electrolysis tank to de-rust, fill the pits w/ JB weld and sand smooth, then Duracoat in Gun Blue (don't flame me, purists!!-I'm trying to bring it back from the dead!!). Really, this pistol won't be decent with any kind of actual bluing (cold or hot) unless I dump some serious dough into it (which is not going to happen), so I will have to use a coating that will hide the repair. Bluing will just make it ugly and obvious and parking isn't an option. Anyway, will post pics (poor quality, but better than none) along the way. Thanks for the welcome, Justin

03-31-2009, 10:50 PM	#9
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As promised-OK! I made an album. See here: http://forum.lugerforum.com/album.php?u=6789 It's only a few pics but I hope they give a little idea of what I'm up against. The rust on the left side of the frame is actually worse than on the right. I left out the grips, but they are worn smooth in places and pretty chewed up in others-Hitler himself carved an "H" on the left one! By the way, one of the small breech block parts has the word "Geladen" engraved on it. Does anyone know what that means? Anyway, check out the photos and let me know what you think! Justin

03-31-2009, 11:13 PM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Justin, "geladen" means "loaded" in German. When the extractor is raised by a round in the chamber, the word appears to indicate the loaded condition of the pistol.

04-02-2009, 09:09 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Justin, It looks like you're future includes many hours of solvent and elbow grease to get this baby in operating condition. If I can be of assistance for parts, let me know, but I'll leave the cleaning labor up to you. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-02-2009, 03:55 PM	#12
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alanint, Thanks for the translation. I've not shot one of these, so I didn't know about that-is it visible to the shooter? Doc, Yes, I agree-I'm beginning to see what I'm in for re: cleaning, but it'll be worth it. Just looking at it makes you want to put everything in the parts washer and leave it there for a week or two. For all the rust and grime, though, the parts really don't seem all that worn except for the bore. I'm very interested to see what comes out of the electrolysis tank, though. Justin

04-02-2009, 04:24 PM	#13
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Justin, The word "geladen" will be visible to the shooter from both sides when the breech is closed with a round in the chamber. Since the extractor is raised when a round is in the chamber it can also be felt in low light as an indicator of a loaded gun.

04-02-2009, 06:57 PM	#14
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	This will be a very interesting project. I kind of envy you because I like restorations - as in bringing the dead to life - a lot. Its been a hobby for years. I'll be very interested to see your progress on the old Luger. Charlie

04-02-2009, 08:41 PM	#15
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ice, Thanks. We'll see. Where in Texas are you? Depends on what you call restoration-I think the very best I can hope for is minor pitting only under the grip panels-if so I can do a good quality cold blue. I've done that before on an M44 and it turned out really well-using a dish detergent w/ phosphate really helps to set up the bluing. Question for the field: can I replicate straw with a cold blue (OxphoBlue or blue wonder, likely), or is it limited to hot or rust bluing??

04-02-2009, 09:50 PM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Justin, Replicating straw is probably going to be the easiest part of your restoration. Search on the site here for the method to use.

04-02-2009, 11:08 PM	#17
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Justin, I wrote the straw sticky, get in touch with me if you need help......

04-03-2009, 06:09 PM	#19
sovblocgunfan User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok y'all, first question for help. I'm trying to drift out the coupling link pin so that I can separate the coupling link from the back half of the toggle assembly. So far it has defeated me. It's not bent, b/c I have full travel, with no sticking. Part moves freely on its axis, with no histeresis (doesn't wobble). Is there a trick to it? Is there maybe a stop rim on one side of it, so that I might be trying to drift it out from the wrong side? Also, after having started my detail cleaning I am finding some bluing underneath the rust I have been able to remove, and under some of the chrome plating that is starting to flake away. It's not great, but it's there, and the pitting may not be as bad as I feared. So, I am cautiously hopeful that I can do a good quality cold blue on this (yay!!), rather than coat it . So, here's what I need to know: I've observed that there are three kinds of finishes on these guns, based on photos I've seen on this site: blued, blued/strawed, and in the white. Can someone point me to a list that tells me what parts are blued, what parts are strawed, and what remains in the white? If the option to blue is going to be put on the table, I want to make it appear proper and respectable. Thanks!

04-03-2009, 06:23 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Justin, I'm trying to drift out the coupling link pin so that I can separate the coupling link from the back half of the toggle assembly. So far it has defeated me. If I am not mistaken on the pin your talking about..it is held in place by a VERY small pin. You must look it over carefully and you may see it. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know." Last edited by lugerholsterrepair; 04-03-2009 at 11:17 PM.