New DWM 1911 Luger

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 01:23 AM

I am going to be picking this one up and will post details.

What are the shooting prospects for the gun.

Mechanically it worked fine at the store.

Also any caution on ammunition if it should be or is safe to shoot.

First out will be store bought 115 gr RN I think I was given.

DavidJayUden · 12-28-2012, 04:06 AM

We'd need few details before we can adequately outline the ramifications of shooting an early dated Luger, but generally 115 FMJ is fine, No +P, etc.
Use a modern magazine, not wood bottom.
Now, is the gun all-matching, original, etc? Also does it have a hold-open?
Welcome aboard!
dju

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 12:09 PM

Thank you.

I have still to finish paying for it and pick it up, probably today once we figure out what house account the money comes out of (cash deal).

Startled bought it. Something I always wanted but never came across and I know very little about them.

It comes with an original magazine and holster

I was casually looking at a 22 Erma? and the owner brought out the DMW and said he wanted it to go to a good home and not someone who would mess with it (little hole in the wall gun shop, serious collector of all sorts and we had been disusing collector 1903s and 1917 Enfields).

He offered to trade off some of the costs and I have two hard to move pistols that came to mind, so I needed to get on with xmas stuff and got back this week.

About that time a local Luger collector came in, he went over the gun, confimred all matching and the straw (?) color was correct and had not been re- finished.

Upshot was he was Lugered up but recommended it at the price. I got a fair deal for the two pistols price wise (assuming someone knew the pistols like the shopw owner did)

I will post more and see if I can figure out how to post pictures when I get it as I will want a value estimate.

Still nervous and in a bit of shock.

DavidJayUden · 12-28-2012, 12:16 PM

Well be ready for another shock: Most of us will recommend against firing it simply on the basis that the value will plummet if you break a numbered part shooting it. And it does happen, particularly on the older guns. Some of us do it anyway, others go out and buy another mismatched or refinished Luger for the range.
Anyway, we'll await photos.
dju

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 04:22 PM

Thank you. Not so much a shock, my brother and I have had that discussion about a collector 1903 (we like to shoot what we collect but we are on the lower tiers of it so can do so for all but the one he has)

I am on the fence and the views and reasons for not shooting it are much appreciated.

I approach it with caution, no need to shoot it until I can get both some idea of the value and the risks.

Breaking it did occur to me but a numbered part loss is permanent and had not got that far (none of what we shoot has breakable parts that have an ID, what breaks can be replaced with no loss of value.

I put that loss of a number part in the pretty persuasive column.

mrerick · 12-28-2012, 05:28 PM

Add to this discussion that the 1911 military issued DWM pistols are more rare. If it is truly collectable, it would be very sad (from both historical and financial points of view) to fire it and damage it in any way.

Really... if you want a Luger to shoot, get a mismatched one, or one with finish conditions.

And yes... they do regularly get damaged. Most recent, both a Luger and P.38 that "Blew up" in one range trip...

Marc

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 07:29 PM

I have to apologize, I was told DMW but now I have to ask for sure what it is.

ID on the front of the grip says

AM XIII 3.22 Serial is 928X

All parts number match per previous but no mfg on top of the toggle.

lugersrkewl · 12-28-2012, 07:45 PM

The reported 1911 DWM serial range is 4089b-166f
welcome to the forum

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 07:55 PM

Thank you, call me confused but does that make it a DMW or some other mfg?

lugersrkewl · 12-28-2012, 08:26 PM

I would say a different mfg. but Im no expert

DavidJayUden · 12-28-2012, 08:55 PM

No mfg. on the top of the toggle confuses me too. Most likely a replacement part I'm guessing.
dju

mrerick · 12-28-2012, 09:48 PM

You will need to post pictures taken with sharp focus and showing external markings clearly for me to be of much help...

Now that they are posted, I can see that it is a DWM marked toggle, but the details are not visible.

Take the pictures outdoors in indirect light without the flash. Use a tripod, and the closeup setting on the camera. Use the self timer to eliminate camera shake.

Marc

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 09:49 PM

If these come across best I can do and my first pictures so I hope not messed up.

It came wiht one new style magainze, one with the base broken off but the wood bit still in there.

Holster says JR 127 with a date of 1915 on it JMECK? on it and what looks like ULM

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Value and does it go back for discussion with the seller with the toggle being replacement?

mrerick · 12-28-2012, 09:57 PM

Hi, The plastic base magazine is after market. The wood one can be repaired. G.T. on this forum does this work, and is world class.

The left grip has the "million dollar chip" up by the safety lever. That can also be repaired. Hugh Clark is the expert on that.

Marc

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 10:16 PM

Couple of more and will get the holster shortly

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Norme · 12-28-2012, 10:58 PM

Hi Greg, Your gun looks very nice to me, if all the numbers match you have yourself quite a find. The finish looks original and these old guns are seldom found with their original magazines. The unit mark on the grip strap is both rare and desirable, it stands for Armeekorps XIII, Artillerei-Munitionskolonne.
Regards, Norm

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 11:26 PM

Thank you for clearing up the front strap information and repair.

Good to know the clip and grip can be fixed (I think the right panel is missing a tank as it moves a bit).

What I am not seeing is the numbers on all the toggle parts (and I am not up to speed on correct terminology). Back part with the knob has the 8X. Part with the crest I don't see a number nor the very forward part.

Are those two hidden?

And here are the holster pictures

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And I am impressed how easily the site loads up the photos. Bit of playing and waiting for my slow modem and it works great.

And value of the gun by itself and the holster and is there any combined value greater than the sum of the two?

RC20 · 12-28-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

You will need to post pictures taken with sharp focus and showing external markings clearly for me to be of much help...

Now that they are posted, I can see that it is a DWM marked toggle, but the details are not visible.

Take the pictures outdoors in indirect light without the flash. Use a tripod, and the closeup setting on the camera. Use the self timer to eliminate camera shake.

I live in Alaska so daylight is pretty scarce right now! (grin). Not as bad as further North though.

Do you still need better pictures? And any area more specific?

Is the DMW in what I am taking for a crest? Phew, seriously stylized if that's right.

The very front part of the toggle that holds the firing pin has what looks like a crest on it, closest I can come is it looks like a Saguaro Cactus.

I do have the tripod and can see what kind of daylight we get tomorrow though forecast is a bit iffy with clouds possible.

I did get adventurous as I have a good site that show tear-down and the front part has the 8X number as well.

Barrel looks awful and will see after I clean it.

Norme · 12-28-2012, 11:52 PM

Hi Greg, 1911 DWMs were numbered commercial style, with concealed serial numbers. The number on the breech block (the front element of the three piece toggle train) is on it's left side. The middle toggle link (the part with the DWM logo) is numbered underneath in a recess. To find these numbers you will need to field strip the gun.
Regards, Norm

RC20 · 12-29-2012, 02:07 AM

Thank you.

Phew, went ahead and used the following link (I like the visuals on it). As you indicated they are there.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolp0...isassembly.pdf

All the numbers match. The only part I can't see is the ejector (will deffer on until someone confirms how it comes out and not me guessing and if it does have a number.

So it appears to be 100% matched numbers

Civilian 1911 DMW then re-issued in WWII to military and marked with the 13th Corp?

12-28-2012, 01:23 AM	#1
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	New DWM 1911 Luger I am going to be picking this one up and will post details. What are the shooting prospects for the gun. Mechanically it worked fine at the store. Also any caution on ammunition if it should be or is safe to shoot. First out will be store bought 115 gr RN I think I was given.

12-28-2012, 05:28 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Add to this discussion that the 1911 military issued DWM pistols are more rare. If it is truly collectable, it would be very sad (from both historical and financial points of view) to fire it and damage it in any way. Really... if you want a Luger to shoot, get a mismatched one, or one with finish conditions. And yes... they do regularly get damaged. Most recent, both a Luger and P.38 that "Blew up" in one range trip... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-28-2012, 09:48 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	You will need to post pictures taken with sharp focus and showing external markings clearly for me to be of much help... Now that they are posted, I can see that it is a DWM marked toggle, but the details are not visible. Take the pictures outdoors in indirect light without the flash. Use a tripod, and the closeup setting on the camera. Use the self timer to eliminate camera shake. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-28-2012, 09:49 PM	#13
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	If these come across best I can do and my first pictures so I hope not messed up. It came wiht one new style magainze, one with the base broken off but the wood bit still in there. Holster says JR 127 with a date of 1915 on it JMECK? on it and what looks like ULM Value and does it go back for discussion with the seller with the toggle being replacement?

12-28-2012, 09:57 PM	#14
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Hi, The plastic base magazine is after market. The wood one can be repaired. G.T. on this forum does this work, and is world class. The left grip has the "million dollar chip" up by the safety lever. That can also be repaired. Hugh Clark is the expert on that. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-28-2012, 04:06 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	We'd need few details before we can adequately outline the ramifications of shooting an early dated Luger, but generally 115 FMJ is fine, No +P, etc. Use a modern magazine, not wood bottom. Now, is the gun all-matching, original, etc? Also does it have a hold-open? Welcome aboard! dju

12-28-2012, 12:09 PM	#3
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you. I have still to finish paying for it and pick it up, probably today once we figure out what house account the money comes out of (cash deal). Startled bought it. Something I always wanted but never came across and I know very little about them. It comes with an original magazine and holster I was casually looking at a 22 Erma? and the owner brought out the DMW and said he wanted it to go to a good home and not someone who would mess with it (little hole in the wall gun shop, serious collector of all sorts and we had been disusing collector 1903s and 1917 Enfields). He offered to trade off some of the costs and I have two hard to move pistols that came to mind, so I needed to get on with xmas stuff and got back this week. About that time a local Luger collector came in, he went over the gun, confimred all matching and the straw (?) color was correct and had not been re- finished. Upshot was he was Lugered up but recommended it at the price. I got a fair deal for the two pistols price wise (assuming someone knew the pistols like the shopw owner did) I will post more and see if I can figure out how to post pictures when I get it as I will want a value estimate. Still nervous and in a bit of shock.

12-28-2012, 12:16 PM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Well be ready for another shock: Most of us will recommend against firing it simply on the basis that the value will plummet if you break a numbered part shooting it. And it does happen, particularly on the older guns. Some of us do it anyway, others go out and buy another mismatched or refinished Luger for the range. Anyway, we'll await photos. dju

12-28-2012, 04:22 PM	#5
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you. Not so much a shock, my brother and I have had that discussion about a collector 1903 (we like to shoot what we collect but we are on the lower tiers of it so can do so for all but the one he has) I am on the fence and the views and reasons for not shooting it are much appreciated. I approach it with caution, no need to shoot it until I can get both some idea of the value and the risks. Breaking it did occur to me but a numbered part loss is permanent and had not got that far (none of what we shoot has breakable parts that have an ID, what breaks can be replaced with no loss of value. I put that loss of a number part in the pretty persuasive column.

12-28-2012, 07:29 PM	#7
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	I have to apologize, I was told DMW but now I have to ask for sure what it is. ID on the front of the grip says AM XIII 3.22 Serial is 928X All parts number match per previous but no mfg on top of the toggle.

12-28-2012, 07:45 PM	#8
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	The reported 1911 DWM serial range is 4089b-166f welcome to the forum

12-28-2012, 07:55 PM	#9
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you, call me confused but does that make it a DMW or some other mfg?

12-28-2012, 08:26 PM	#10
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	I would say a different mfg. but Im no expert

12-28-2012, 08:55 PM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	No mfg. on the top of the toggle confuses me too. Most likely a replacement part I'm guessing. dju

12-28-2012, 10:16 PM	#15
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Couple of more and will get the holster shortly

12-28-2012, 10:58 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Greg, Your gun looks very nice to me, if all the numbers match you have yourself quite a find. The finish looks original and these old guns are seldom found with their original magazines. The unit mark on the grip strap is both rare and desirable, it stands for Armeekorps XIII, Artillerei-Munitionskolonne. Regards, Norm

12-28-2012, 11:26 PM	#17
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you for clearing up the front strap information and repair. Good to know the clip and grip can be fixed (I think the right panel is missing a tank as it moves a bit). What I am not seeing is the numbers on all the toggle parts (and I am not up to speed on correct terminology). Back part with the knob has the 8X. Part with the crest I don't see a number nor the very forward part. Are those two hidden? And here are the holster pictures And I am impressed how easily the site loads up the photos. Bit of playing and waiting for my slow modem and it works great. And value of the gun by itself and the holster and is there any combined value greater than the sum of the two?

12-28-2012, 11:52 PM	#19
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Greg, 1911 DWMs were numbered commercial style, with concealed serial numbers. The number on the breech block (the front element of the three piece toggle train) is on it's left side. The middle toggle link (the part with the DWM logo) is numbered underneath in a recess. To find these numbers you will need to field strip the gun. Regards, Norm

12-29-2012, 02:07 AM	#20
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Thank you. Phew, went ahead and used the following link (I like the visuals on it). As you indicated they are there. http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolp0...isassembly.pdf All the numbers match. The only part I can't see is the ejector (will deffer on until someone confirms how it comes out and not me guessing and if it does have a number. So it appears to be 100% matched numbers Civilian 1911 DMW then re-issued in WWII to military and marked with the 13th Corp?