How difficult is it to replace a Luger's toggle link?

Kohaku2416 · 07-26-2023, 08:55 PM

Good evening everyone, I wanted to ask for anyone who has done it before on how difficult replacing the toggle link on a P08's toggle assembly is to do?

My Luger is a mismatch that has an adjustable navy rear sight that I would like to replace for the fixed V notch rear sight.

The rear sight is part of the toggle link however....so I am currious as to how much fitting would be involved? Any help is appreciated. Thanks

reiver · 07-26-2023, 09:07 PM

I did that last week. Not difficult if you are a tad handy.
I put a Navy on a stock V.
1. get a very good 'feel' for the original linkage with the assembly in hand, how loose or how tight...it should be a tad loose and very easy to manipulate by hand.
2. with a very small punch drive out the very small retaining pin you can see on top of the toggle...not completely just so that it clears the large round pin that joins the assembly. Drive that upward and let it set in place.
Supporting teh toggle drive that large connecting pin out in teh direction of the small retaining pin.
3. Now the fun part. Put the new rear in place and with a wooden dowel (I used a thin paint brush handle) move the toggle assembly thru its complete movement and note where it 'binds'.. gently file away resistance. Re test etc.
Do not take any metal off of the link connection that the wood dowel goes thru...relieve what you find on the new rear toggle.
It takes a bit of here/there but I think the whole process took about an hour as I'd never done it before.
4. Replace the original large connecting pin and try it in the barrel extension, do not drive the retaining pin in place, check the feel on cocking etc.....if you feel binding, start again after noting the location.
Mine operates perfectly btw.

If that sounds complex then contact GT here and he'll do a fine job for you.

Kohaku2416 · 07-27-2023, 01:28 AM

Hello and thank you for reply, do I need to replace the axle pin from the navy toggle link or can I reuse it? Thanks

Kiwi · 07-27-2023, 08:47 AM

Reiver - do you re-blue (cold blue) where you filed?

reiver · 07-27-2023, 01:25 PM

I re used the axle pin and that should not be an issue...support the toggle properly and it drives out with a few smart smacks with a brass flat punch...just make sure the retaining pin is out of the way.

You can cold blue but all of the filing is in areas not seen...the flat areas where the new piece joins the axle/connecter (sides and a bit of facing) and perhaps a bit inside of the toggles where they overhang the extension...that may sound a bit confusing but when you are holding the assembly take your time and you'll note where it binds.

Take your time and don't be aggressive....file /fit etc.... I did cold blue the 'innards' just because.

Kohaku2416 · 08-16-2023, 04:06 AM

I wanted to give an update for anyone who might have the answer, I replaced toggle links with a ww1 era link with the fixed rear sight and once installed the pistol fails to lock open with an empty magazine.

The hold open latch works fine with the original mag and toggle link with the navy adjustable rear sight that is until they were swapped out did the issue begin to occur.

If anyone has heard of this type of problem I would love all input on how to resolve the issue. Thanks

reiver · 08-16-2023, 01:06 PM

I did not have that issue... If it is almost but not quite recoiling fully (enough to cycle) than you'll need to look closely for the interference area.
I'd operate it slowly by hand and you should feel if it is binding on the link or in some other area.
Was this 'by hand' or under/ in a live fire.

Kohaku2416 · 08-16-2023, 02:57 PM

I'm told it refuses to lock open either when fired or with an empty magazine. My gunsmith has it now and said the mainspring in the grip is slightly binding up when you manipulate the gun's action.

reiver · 08-16-2023, 03:25 PM

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me but who knows....the mainspring was changed? It did work prior tho.

Kohaku2416 · 08-16-2023, 06:53 PM

....? No the spring wasn't replaced it was binding with the new toggle link when it was installed and then cocked. With the old toggle link everything works fine and holds open. With the new toggle link it won't hold open and the mainspring will bind.

reiver · 08-17-2023, 01:01 PM

Then something isn't 'even' as the toggle / assembly goes out of battery to the rear and it is slightly twisting/binding the coupling link not allowing full rearward travel.

A competent gun smith should be able to fix/figure that out. I would guess the area around the sides of the center toggle link need some relief on the rear toggle itself on the inside facings that face the center toggle link. Never remove material from the center link or anything original as that worked...remove, gently/slightly, from the new rear piece.

I simply replicated the dimensions of the old toggle in the new Navy rear and did this by 'feel' forward and lateral movement. The new Navy was too tight as is (good as it give you something to work with) and I simply assembled and disassembled (gently filed) until the feel was the same as the original out of the pistol....literally flop forward rearward movement and side to side flex. Worked first round.

One other possibility...binding/interference at the rear on full recoil...check the 'tail' is not binding on the frame projections. There is enough material to relieve some from the toggle and it may have been cast to shallow.

Like I said...a Gunsmith should be able to do this or, if he is stumped send it to GT....

Kohaku2416 · 09-10-2023, 01:05 AM

Hello again, i wanted to give an update that i realized the new toggle link works fine and the issue was in the aluminum bottom magazine that i bought from ebay and discovered it weakly engages the hold open when the gun is apart.

With my ww1 mag with the wood bottom that came with the gun it locks open 100% and the hold open sits up higher with a mag inserted while the gun is once again apart.

Kiwi · 09-10-2023, 10:17 AM

Another reason to get a few Mec-Gar magazines for the range

Kohaku2416 · 09-18-2023, 12:20 AM

Yeah I usually do get the mec gars as my shooter mags with Lugers I've had in the past, I just haven't got around to doing it yet. However, I did want to collect a few of the different wartime mags to go with my other Luger acessories. The mec gar mags do work great though.

07-26-2023, 08:55 PM	#1
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	How difficult is it to replace a Luger's toggle link? Good evening everyone, I wanted to ask for anyone who has done it before on how difficult replacing the toggle link on a P08's toggle assembly is to do? My Luger is a mismatch that has an adjustable navy rear sight that I would like to replace for the fixed V notch rear sight. The rear sight is part of the toggle link however....so I am currious as to how much fitting would be involved? Any help is appreciated. Thanks

07-26-2023, 09:07 PM	#2
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	I did that last week. Not difficult if you are a tad handy. I put a Navy on a stock V. 1. get a very good 'feel' for the original linkage with the assembly in hand, how loose or how tight...it should be a tad loose and very easy to manipulate by hand. 2. with a very small punch drive out the very small retaining pin you can see on top of the toggle...not completely just so that it clears the large round pin that joins the assembly. Drive that upward and let it set in place. Supporting teh toggle drive that large connecting pin out in teh direction of the small retaining pin. 3. Now the fun part. Put the new rear in place and with a wooden dowel (I used a thin paint brush handle) move the toggle assembly thru its complete movement and note where it 'binds'.. gently file away resistance. Re test etc. Do not take any metal off of the link connection that the wood dowel goes thru...relieve what you find on the new rear toggle. It takes a bit of here/there but I think the whole process took about an hour as I'd never done it before. 4. Replace the original large connecting pin and try it in the barrel extension, do not drive the retaining pin in place, check the feel on cocking etc.....if you feel binding, start again after noting the location. Mine operates perfectly btw. If that sounds complex then contact GT here and he'll do a fine job for you.

07-27-2023, 01:28 AM	#3
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Hello and thank you for reply, do I need to replace the axle pin from the navy toggle link or can I reuse it? Thanks

07-27-2023, 08:47 AM	#4
Kiwi User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Wrong side of the Delaware river Posts: 303 Thanks: 213 Thanked 434 Times in 171 Posts	Reiver - do you re-blue (cold blue) where you filed?

07-27-2023, 01:25 PM	#5
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	I re used the axle pin and that should not be an issue...support the toggle properly and it drives out with a few smart smacks with a brass flat punch...just make sure the retaining pin is out of the way. You can cold blue but all of the filing is in areas not seen...the flat areas where the new piece joins the axle/connecter (sides and a bit of facing) and perhaps a bit inside of the toggles where they overhang the extension...that may sound a bit confusing but when you are holding the assembly take your time and you'll note where it binds. Take your time and don't be aggressive....file /fit etc.... I did cold blue the 'innards' just because.

08-16-2023, 04:06 AM	#6
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	I wanted to give an update for anyone who might have the answer, I replaced toggle links with a ww1 era link with the fixed rear sight and once installed the pistol fails to lock open with an empty magazine. The hold open latch works fine with the original mag and toggle link with the navy adjustable rear sight that is until they were swapped out did the issue begin to occur. If anyone has heard of this type of problem I would love all input on how to resolve the issue. Thanks

08-16-2023, 01:06 PM	#7
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	I did not have that issue... If it is almost but not quite recoiling fully (enough to cycle) than you'll need to look closely for the interference area. I'd operate it slowly by hand and you should feel if it is binding on the link or in some other area. Was this 'by hand' or under/ in a live fire.

08-16-2023, 02:57 PM	#8
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	I'm told it refuses to lock open either when fired or with an empty magazine. My gunsmith has it now and said the mainspring in the grip is slightly binding up when you manipulate the gun's action.

08-16-2023, 03:25 PM	#9
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	That doesn't make a lot of sense to me but who knows....the mainspring was changed? It did work prior tho.

08-16-2023, 06:53 PM	#10
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	....? No the spring wasn't replaced it was binding with the new toggle link when it was installed and then cocked. With the old toggle link everything works fine and holds open. With the new toggle link it won't hold open and the mainspring will bind.

08-17-2023, 01:01 PM	#11
reiver User Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 132 Thanks: 81 Thanked 149 Times in 63 Posts	Then something isn't 'even' as the toggle / assembly goes out of battery to the rear and it is slightly twisting/binding the coupling link not allowing full rearward travel. A competent gun smith should be able to fix/figure that out. I would guess the area around the sides of the center toggle link need some relief on the rear toggle itself on the inside facings that face the center toggle link. Never remove material from the center link or anything original as that worked...remove, gently/slightly, from the new rear piece. I simply replicated the dimensions of the old toggle in the new Navy rear and did this by 'feel' forward and lateral movement. The new Navy was too tight as is (good as it give you something to work with) and I simply assembled and disassembled (gently filed) until the feel was the same as the original out of the pistol....literally flop forward rearward movement and side to side flex. Worked first round. One other possibility...binding/interference at the rear on full recoil...check the 'tail' is not binding on the frame projections. There is enough material to relieve some from the toggle and it may have been cast to shallow. Like I said...a Gunsmith should be able to do this or, if he is stumped send it to GT....

09-10-2023, 01:05 AM	#12
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Hello again, i wanted to give an update that i realized the new toggle link works fine and the issue was in the aluminum bottom magazine that i bought from ebay and discovered it weakly engages the hold open when the gun is apart. With my ww1 mag with the wood bottom that came with the gun it locks open 100% and the hold open sits up higher with a mag inserted while the gun is once again apart.

09-10-2023, 10:17 AM	#13
Kiwi User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Wrong side of the Delaware river Posts: 303 Thanks: 213 Thanked 434 Times in 171 Posts	Another reason to get a few Mec-Gar magazines for the range

09-18-2023, 12:20 AM	#14
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Yeah I usually do get the mec gars as my shooter mags with Lugers I've had in the past, I just haven't got around to doing it yet. However, I did want to collect a few of the different wartime mags to go with my other Luger acessories. The mec gar mags do work great though.