Possible Gale Morgan restoration mark?

Frank H. · 03-15-2005, 03:15 AM

It's been about 10 months since I've posted here, this is Frank who used to be in Los Angeles, now moved to Oregon (McMinnville, about an hour south of Portland).

Before I'd left L.A. I'd posted a thread about a "really nice" artillery I'd bought that of course ended up being a really nice restoration, LOL. My first Luger purchase... beautiful gun though, Dwight spotted the sideplate "verticle finish-out line geometry" that he said was the same as Gale Morgan restorations he'd seen. I had another comment that it looked like Gale's finish appearance.

The moving expenses were thousands more than expected and I'm selling off a few things that aren't bolted down to the ground, while going through photos of this gun to put it up at auction I noticed something interesting, an "X" where I don't recal seeing an "X" under the grip of other Lugers.

Check it out in the photo, just to the right of the grip screw hole. I wonder if that was a "signature" mark left by the restorer? I know there have been threads on restorations and whether clues should be left or not by the restorer, thought I'd share this one. Here's more photos of the gun by the way, at gunbroker. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=29681633

Frank H. in Oregon

Lugerdoc · 03-15-2005, 12:50 PM

Frank, I suspect that this "X" is just an original inspectors marking. The polish on this pistol appears to be too "heavy" for a Morgan restoration. The only way that I can tell Gale's work, is that it appears to have left the factory, with all the original machine marks, yesterday. TH

Frank H. · 03-15-2005, 02:15 PM

Hi Tom, and thanks again for your help last week -

One thing I've learned is the difference between "point and shoot is good enough" in photography, and actually taking decent photos of a Luger LOL.

That one up above was taken at night indoors with a flash under fluorescent lights, that whole batch of photos had a shiny and darker finish than the gun has.

Then I took photos outside in natural light, but I'd done a light wipe-down with RemOil, and that ended up with (of course) photos that gave a more polished out shiny look as well... That North Carolina auction guy sure has the lighting and camera technique! I know I don't.

Here's a somewhat better look at the finish, and it's got the sideplate "line" going up vertically from the back side of the "hump" that Dwight had pointed out earlier, for what it's worth it's a characteristic he's seen on Gale's work.

It's always going to be an unclear issue I guess (or one with differing views), to mark clearly as restored and by who, or just let the piece talk for itself as best it can, relying on whoever can sort out the subtleties. I guess one view is that no matter what gets stated on a forum, or even if Al Gore hadn't invented the Internet yet (LOL), improving guns that need improving and doing restorations is going to be asked for and done, on everything from old paintings and old cars and old Lugers.

"Don't clean that dirty table, you'll ruin the value!" (Antique roadshow, with a table that looks to have held up a chicken coop...)

The real friction on it is when someone sells a piece "withholding" that it's been restored, though some just don't know. I've heard it's a real topic of interest as well with the old single action revolvers.

Frank H. in Oregon

Dwight Gruber · 03-15-2005, 10:05 PM

Frank,

Welcome to the neighborhood!

--Dwight

Frank H. · 03-15-2005, 10:24 PM

Thanks Dwight, the weather was nice in So. Cal. but "everything is nice" in Oregon, LOL. I'm south and a bit west of Portland down just below McMinnville, neat town with the Evergreen Aviation museum (Spruce Goose, B-26, Spitfire, ME-109, Stealth fighter, "tons" of great stuff), and I hear we got off easy this winter weather wise. This week has been awesome as you know.

It will be great to meet some of you at either the "thin" Portland shows or in Reno sometime. Maybe we can have an informal Ron Smith retirement party! We can check up and make sure the Harley is shiny, with all that new spare time...

Frank H. in Oregon

Dwight Gruber · 03-15-2005, 11:19 PM

Frank,

The next Portland Expo show is this weekend, three days worth. I'll be there late Friday and much of Sunday (have an 11-hour work shift Saturday, drat!). If you don't already know, Reno is on the April 8 weekend, is going to have a big Forum contingent.

Feel free to email me, dwightg@pacifier.com .

--Dwight

Frank H. · 03-15-2005, 11:33 PM

Thank you for the show info Dwight!

Work scheduling is biting me also, will be tied up for the upcoming weekend. Work work work, buy buy buy, at least we're doing our part for the ecomony LOL. A few lotto tickets might change that entirely though...

Frank H. in McMinnville Oregon

03-15-2005, 03:15 AM	#1
Frank H. User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon, south of Portland Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Possible Gale Morgan restoration mark? It's been about 10 months since I've posted here, this is Frank who used to be in Los Angeles, now moved to Oregon (McMinnville, about an hour south of Portland). Before I'd left L.A. I'd posted a thread about a "really nice" artillery I'd bought that of course ended up being a really nice restoration, LOL. My first Luger purchase... beautiful gun though, Dwight spotted the sideplate "verticle finish-out line geometry" that he said was the same as Gale Morgan restorations he'd seen. I had another comment that it looked like Gale's finish appearance. The moving expenses were thousands more than expected and I'm selling off a few things that aren't bolted down to the ground, while going through photos of this gun to put it up at auction I noticed something interesting, an "X" where I don't recal seeing an "X" under the grip of other Lugers. Check it out in the photo, just to the right of the grip screw hole. I wonder if that was a "signature" mark left by the restorer? I know there have been threads on restorations and whether clues should be left or not by the restorer, thought I'd share this one. Here's more photos of the gun by the way, at gunbroker. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=29681633 Frank H. in Oregon

03-15-2005, 12:50 PM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Frank, I suspect that this "X" is just an original inspectors marking. The polish on this pistol appears to be too "heavy" for a Morgan restoration. The only way that I can tell Gale's work, is that it appears to have left the factory, with all the original machine marks, yesterday. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-15-2005, 02:15 PM	#3
Frank H. User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon, south of Portland Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Doc, more of finish - Hi Tom, and thanks again for your help last week - One thing I've learned is the difference between "point and shoot is good enough" in photography, and actually taking decent photos of a Luger LOL. That one up above was taken at night indoors with a flash under fluorescent lights, that whole batch of photos had a shiny and darker finish than the gun has. Then I took photos outside in natural light, but I'd done a light wipe-down with RemOil, and that ended up with (of course) photos that gave a more polished out shiny look as well... That North Carolina auction guy sure has the lighting and camera technique! I know I don't. Here's a somewhat better look at the finish, and it's got the sideplate "line" going up vertically from the back side of the "hump" that Dwight had pointed out earlier, for what it's worth it's a characteristic he's seen on Gale's work. It's always going to be an unclear issue I guess (or one with differing views), to mark clearly as restored and by who, or just let the piece talk for itself as best it can, relying on whoever can sort out the subtleties. I guess one view is that no matter what gets stated on a forum, or even if Al Gore hadn't invented the Internet yet (LOL), improving guns that need improving and doing restorations is going to be asked for and done, on everything from old paintings and old cars and old Lugers. "Don't clean that dirty table, you'll ruin the value!" (Antique roadshow, with a table that looks to have held up a chicken coop...) The real friction on it is when someone sells a piece "withholding" that it's been restored, though some just don't know. I've heard it's a real topic of interest as well with the old single action revolvers. Frank H. in Oregon

03-15-2005, 10:24 PM	#5
Frank H. User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon, south of Portland Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight! Thanks Dwight, the weather was nice in So. Cal. but "everything is nice" in Oregon, LOL. I'm south and a bit west of Portland down just below McMinnville, neat town with the Evergreen Aviation museum (Spruce Goose, B-26, Spitfire, ME-109, Stealth fighter, "tons" of great stuff), and I hear we got off easy this winter weather wise. This week has been awesome as you know. It will be great to meet some of you at either the "thin" Portland shows or in Reno sometime. Maybe we can have an informal Ron Smith retirement party! We can check up and make sure the Harley is shiny, with all that new spare time... Frank H. in Oregon

03-15-2005, 10:05 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Frank, Welcome to the neighborhood! --Dwight

03-15-2005, 11:19 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Frank, The next Portland Expo show is this weekend, three days worth. I'll be there late Friday and much of Sunday (have an 11-hour work shift Saturday, drat!). If you don't already know, Reno is on the April 8 weekend, is going to have a big Forum contingent. Feel free to email me, dwightg@pacifier.com . --Dwight

03-15-2005, 11:33 PM	#7
Frank H. User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oregon, south of Portland Posts: 84 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the show info Dwight! Work scheduling is biting me also, will be tied up for the upcoming weekend. Work work work, buy buy buy, at least we're doing our part for the ecomony LOL. A few lotto tickets might change that entirely though... Frank H. in McMinnville Oregon