1913 DWM.. Vickers proof marks?

Bill B · 10-13-2011, 01:53 AM

I recently picked up a DWM 1913 Luger with some other goods. It looked like standard issue until I saw Brit proofs on the barrel, now I have no idea what the heck it is. My camera is down so I'll describe as best I can.
1. 1913 chamber date, DWM marked toggle
2. usual German military proofs
3.Vickers proof on nearly all parts including frame
4. barrel has Vickers proof above that and what looks like aCP in a circle with crown on top and NP above that
5. unnumbered mag
Could you gents explain what this possibly is ? Thanks in advance guys.

Vlim · 10-13-2011, 07:53 AM

Probably not a Vickers proof marking (as found on Dutch lugers), but a sign that the gun passed through the UK at a given point in time and received the required proof markings there.

Bill B · 10-13-2011, 10:40 AM

Vlim, thanks for the response. The proof is a V below a crown. Was Vickers a proof testing house for imports?
I wish my camera was working , this would be a whole lot easier.

Lugerdoc · 10-13-2011, 11:11 AM

A true Vickers Dutch contract luger would not have a dated chamber or German Military acceptance. Both would have some of the same British proof house markings. TH

Vlim · 10-14-2011, 09:49 AM

Indeed. The crown/V (and crown/P) are both markings that were (and are) used by the proof house in London. You will find them on all guns that went through the London proof house.

Foreign guns also usually received a 'NOTENGLISHMAKE' marking.

I have a Vickers that was actually reproofed in London and received, mistakingly, a 'NOTENGLISHMAKE' marking the second time. It was also reproofed which was unneccessary also, as it had already been proofed in the UK before.

Morale of the story: Proof houses also make mistakes. Plenty of them

The image shows some London proofs and the 'NOTENGLISMAKE' marking on a M1934 Mauser that went through London on it's way to Palestine after WW2.

BogeyB · 10-15-2011, 10:09 PM

Bill,

Crown/GP ( not CP ) was a London barrel proof. Crown/ V was a London inspection mark. Crown/NP was a nitro proof mark ( Birmingham ). This gun entered England and was so marked to be legal.

Mike

10-13-2011, 01:53 AM	#1
Bill B New User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1913 DWM.. Vickers proof marks? I recently picked up a DWM 1913 Luger with some other goods. It looked like standard issue until I saw Brit proofs on the barrel, now I have no idea what the heck it is. My camera is down so I'll describe as best I can. 1. 1913 chamber date, DWM marked toggle 2. usual German military proofs 3.Vickers proof on nearly all parts including frame 4. barrel has Vickers proof above that and what looks like aCP in a circle with crown on top and NP above that 5. unnumbered mag Could you gents explain what this possibly is ? Thanks in advance guys.

10-13-2011, 11:11 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	A true Vickers Dutch contract luger would not have a dated chamber or German Military acceptance. Both would have some of the same British proof house markings. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-14-2011, 09:49 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Indeed. The crown/V (and crown/P) are both markings that were (and are) used by the proof house in London. You will find them on all guns that went through the London proof house. Foreign guns also usually received a 'NOTENGLISHMAKE' marking. I have a Vickers that was actually reproofed in London and received, mistakingly, a 'NOTENGLISHMAKE' marking the second time. It was also reproofed which was unneccessary also, as it had already been proofed in the UK before. Morale of the story: Proof houses also make mistakes. Plenty of them The image shows some London proofs and the 'NOTENGLISMAKE' marking on a M1934 Mauser that went through London on it's way to Palestine after WW2. Attached Thumbnails

10-15-2011, 10:09 PM	#6
BogeyB Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mc Donough, GA. Posts: 420 Thanks: 0 Thanked 222 Times in 96 Posts	Bill, Crown/GP ( not CP ) was a London barrel proof. Crown/ V was a London inspection mark. Crown/NP was a nitro proof mark ( Birmingham ). This gun entered England and was so marked to be legal. Mike __________________ MAGA Always!! NRA Benifactor, GCA

10-13-2011, 07:53 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Probably not a Vickers proof marking (as found on Dutch lugers), but a sign that the gun passed through the UK at a given point in time and received the required proof markings there.

10-13-2011, 10:40 AM	#3
Bill B New User Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Vlim, thanks for the response. The proof is a V below a crown. Was Vickers a proof testing house for imports? I wish my camera was working , this would be a whole lot easier.