Problem in reassembly of S/42 Luger

[Hoyt Weathers]

I have a "Russian dipper". The toggle pin and firing pin cluster are out of the barrel group. At present I am trying to install the stripped barrel assembly onto the frame. My problem is that it goes in most of the way, but it meets stiff resistance and stops about 1.5 inches from where it should go. I see nothing preventing the barrel to go in all the way.

Obvious help needed!

Hoyt Weathers

[LugerVern]

Hoyt

I will venture a guess, remove your magazine this will allow the hold open to drop down and the upper assembly should slide all the way in.

Make sure your take down lever is in the take down position

Make sure your safety is in the off position


Let us know if this doesn't work or if I miss under stood your question?

Vern

[Hoyt Weathers]

Hello Vern,

Thank you for your informative reply.

I am about to go to bed now (Central time). I will print your reply, follow your suggestions point by point tomorrow, and get back to you ASAP with results.

Regards,
Hoyt

[Hoyt Weathers]

Hello Vern,

For a preamble of the present situation, look above to my first posting in this thread.
As a recap, there is nothing removable remaining in the barrel group except the front sight. In the frame group there is only the safety lever, which is in the up position, and the recoil spring with the rod inside it which are in their appropriate positions.
Since this Luger is a "Russian dipper", it is easy to see where the binding is on both the barrel group and the frame group since the dip blue is gone in places where the binding occurs. I used my Dremel with a suitable grinding wheel to remove steel in those areas. That effort did not affect the binding. Not even a smidgen.

What I am left with are two paper weights.

Regards,
Hoyt

[LugerVern]

Need pictures at this point.
Place the two parts together to the point of binding-take picture
then take pictures of parts apart showing internal surfaces.

You didnâ??t say if you had a chance to fire your gun before the problem started, also was there issues with disassembly?

Please donâ??t remove anymore metal before you show the gun pictures to the forum members!

Vern

[Ron Wood]

Unless you find out exactly what the problem is, a few more episodes with the Dremel tool will definitely produce paper weight material. In your email correspondence with me, you indicated that with the toggle train in the receiver the assembly only lacked 3/8" of going together. With the toggle train removed, now it lacks an inch and a half! I can make no sense of such a scenario at all. I have sat down with one of my Lugers and tried to replicate or even guess as to how this can happen, but have come up empty. Perhaps pictures will be enlightening.

[Hoyt Weathers]

Hello Ron,
I looked at the bottom of the barrel group and saw three bright areas. One of them was about where the barrel was binding. I used my Dremel tool with a grinder fob and dressed off those 3 areas.
I then tried to put the barrel back into the frame. It stop where it did before. No improvement.

I have good digital cameras. I also have a digital satellite internet dish.

If you have a high speed internet connection, I can send those pictures to you with no problem.

If you have a suitable high speed internet conection, I request that you send a P.M to me.

That will allow me to send the pictures directly to you and not go through the present arrangement which will require down-sizing. I prefer not to do that if I can avoid it.

My e-mail address is: ahab@hiwaay.net

I hope the above address is clickable. It is a copy and paste of my internet address from my address book.

I suggest that we go with PM's from this point forward.

Regards,
Hoyt

[Edward Tinker]

I had / have a C96 bolo, it shot fine, then I took it apart and could not get it together. I keep it now as a lesson that less is best when trying to "fix" something that did not need fixing...

Unless you had to force it apart, it was together when you got it? And you didn't have to tap it apart?


ed

[Ron Wood]

Hoyt,
I have always sent you emails directly, not through the forum, so you already have my email address unless you have deleted my last 3 messages, and the last two messages you sent were from the address you posted above. I have high speed cable Internet access so sending pics should be no problem. If you have deleted my emails, let me know and I will send you another.
Ed's question is a good one. When you got your Luger, did you have to force it apart?

[LugerVern]

Hoyt

Please look at your receiver lug: burs and flatting sometime form and even though the gun comes apart pretty easily it can be hard to put back together again because the receiver and frame are not completely aligned until fully assembled. It is not real obvious unless youâ??re looking for it. Happen to me a couple of times.

Good luck!

Vern

[Steinar]

Hello Hoyt,
One of the places with the tightest tolerances, is the rear part where the rear toggle link meets the frame. If you have been grinding on the 'slots' you see in the frame, you are probably looking at a lot of fitting on several places to make it go back together. Depending on the depth of the grinding, you may even end up having to grind the rear toggle link (though, very little could be done there, the 'cut' needs to stay sharp).
I hope this is not the case.. and wish you good luck getting it back together!

Btw. I quess you know that the S-lever needs to be in the right place, not in the magazine well or behind the spring notch.

[Steinar]

At a closer read trough.. I notice that you had removed everything from the upper part. So my previous post was missing the taget..
..takedown lever is down?

[Hoyt Weathers]

To all those above who replied:

At this point, the take down lever is not installed in the frame.

Hoyt

[Lugerdoc]

Hoyt, I think that Vern may be on the right track. As you slide the barrelled reciever into the frame, check to see if the receiver lug (under the chamber araa) is hitting the front of the frame as it goes in. Perhaps, rather than grinding on your parts, a bit of lapping with some valve grinding compound, would be less destructive. TH

[Vlim]

Ehm, I take it you know that for correct placement of the receiver onto the frame that the connecting link should point to the rear while sliding the receiver onto the frame (best practice is to hold the frame and receiver upside down), then make sure that the link drops in to connect to the main spring assembly (flip the frame over and make sure the link drops in).

Just thought I'd mention this to rule it out.

[Hoyt Weathers]

To all repliers:

I have shot one or two magazines of ammo through this pistol.

I had the "bright" idea of removing some of the small parts which I thought needed to have the Russian dip blue removed. Then I tried to re-straw them, but they turned out kind of a bright Peacock blue. They look good that way! I think my oven temperature of 500 degrees F. was too high.

If I recall correctly, it was when I tried to put the parts back together that the binding first happened. The barrel group was almost into battery when it stuck the first time about 1/2 inch from being in battery. Now here is where I believe that I flubbed up big time.
I used a punch and a steel hammer to pound it loose. It finally did come loose and off the frame.
That may have, and probably did, warp the frame rails and/or the barrel rails.

[LugerVern]

Hoyt

Ok, you beat your gun with a steal hammer; generally not a good idea, but there is a good chance youâ??re still dealing with the original problem.
I truly believe your barrel lug is deformed and you aggravated the situation by hammering on your gun.

Can you send me a picture of your barrel lug, a picture of your lower receiver in the area where the barrel lug passes through the frame (front frame well)?

Then put the two parts together turn them upside down and take a picture of the barrel lug in its most rearward position (first binding)

vern_t_2000@yahoo.com

Take a steal ruler and place it inside the rails of your guns frame both sides and upper receiver both side, if it lays flat the full distance, chances are you didnâ??t warp the gun.

You said you used a punch, at what point on the gun did you place the tip?
Did you hammer directly on the guns frame or receiver or just on the punch?

Do you have a set of calipers? Not absolutely required but they would help.

Donâ??t give up just yet!

Vern

[Hoyt Weathers]

To Lugervern:

I have had a very serious personal family problem late today involving one of my three daughters. I will not get into that here because this is not the place to do so. Until the date and time of this message, I have not turned on my computer.

I will get back to the suggestions you made. I hope that will be on Wednesday, Inshallah.
It could be a day later.

When it first met resistance in going into battery, I did pound on the right rear of the barrel group directly with a punch and a steel hammer. That may have caused it to wind up the way it is now.

I do have a digital caliper. I will measure everything I can with them, record all measurements, and report back the results in another reply.

Regards,
Hoyt Weathers

[Edward Tinker]

Hoyt, my thoughts and prayers go to you. Take care of family and best to you,


ed

[Lugerdoc]

Hoyt, Sounds like your time would be best served, sending your luger to a gunsmith specalizing in these, or selling it to me cheap, as is, for parts. TH