a newcomer with a portuguese

[sepolvora]

Sirs:
I am new to this forum and I the reason to be here is being the owner of what I am told is a portuguese navy (MP mark on its side)

Sadly, it was reworked in some east germany arsennal after the war and then send to Nicaragua in the Sandinista war, but ended up here, along with 3 other Lugers (byf: they are now owned by a family member).

The only original remaining marks are that MP and "carregada" in the safety.
It came with 3 magazines made in the 40's and one holster, loading and barrel cleaning tools like those I recently saw in one of your galleries as a 1943 portuguese Luger.

I do not want to know how much it worth, I realize any commercial value was lost when they refinished and post marked every part (yes, every) along with erasing the original DWM scroll on top of the toggle.

Anyway, I warmly congratulate the people around here and their beautiful Lugers. Those beautiful pistols make me drooling.

Saludos

[Edward Tinker]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!


ANY LUGER IS A GOOD LUGER




eD

[the gunman]

"AMEN "To that ED

[thegundude]

Originally posted by sepolvora
I realize any commercial value was lost when they refinished and post marked every part (yes, every) along with erasing the original DWM scroll on top of the toggle.

Oh, I don't know about that. I'm sure it's a rare enough "variation" of it's own, especially as a Navy, to warrant a reasonable value. I wouldn't kick it out of MY collection...

So, where are the pictures? I hate it when you noobies come on here with interesting guns and no PICTURES!

BTW, welcome to the LugerForums...

[sepolvora]

Thanks for replying.
I will try to post some pictures, I hope I can do it here, but I am not a tech pro.
Another data: the 3 magazines are marked "fxo", a small eagle and 37 below.
I also checked the frame of the pistol, under the (cracked) grips, and it has some tiny marks on the backstrap.

I'll made up some story so my father in law let me handle his lugers, I believe they are byf.
I am not really a collector, just a shooter that enjoys guns, specially those well made, like Luger pistols, mauser rifles and whatever comes to my hands.

Again, thanks for your attention

[sepolvora]

http://furum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugerholster.jpg

http://furum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugertop.jpg

http://furum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugermarks.jpg

let's see if you can see them

[Ron Wood]

Juan,
You need to edit your links to say "forum.lugerforum.com" instead of "furum.lugerforum.com", then we will be able to click on the link sand see the photos. I made the change and could see them, but I can't edit your post for you.
The photo of the top of the Luger is out of focus so I can't tell if it is a blurry image of the DWM logo or the forward toggle link from a model 1908 Bulgarian Luger. The holster looks like it might be a 1943 Portuguese contract holster.

[sepolvora]

ROn:
sorry, of course you're abolutely right
here are the links corrected
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugerholster.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugertop.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugermarks.jpg

I could not edit the original message.
Thanks again.
(tomorrow I'll try again with the top picture)

[sepolvora]

Ron:
it's me again
Sorry but the picture you saw it's not the one I loaded, I believe you're right about the DWM logo

I'll reload mine with another filename

Confused Sepolvora

[sepolvora]

this is the new file:
Sorry for the inconveniences
Thanks for your comprehension

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/lugertopv2.jpg

[Pete Ebbink]

"2036" on the top of the chamber is quite odd.

I only seem to see "M" but not "MP"...

[sepolvora]

Mr. Ebbink
You're absolutely right. The P is not visible. It was in the original resolution, but for the piscure to be admitted Ihad to lower the resolution. Th P is very close to the M.
and you're right also on the top number (it's really 8036). To me it looks as it was striken with a punch from a different set every number. It looks odd, just not to use the word "sloppy job".

And the finishing of the gun is similar to a parkerized. not blued like the rest of the lot I saw. Anyway, my father in law bought as many as he could (3 or 4, I cannot remember) I choose them for him, picked the best mags, with the best lettering visible, including byf and fxo, and that was it.

Years later, he gave me this one for my birthday along with the holster, 2 tools and 3 fxo 37 mags.

And it shoots very well thanks.

A now deceased german gentleman once looked for it in a very old book, and he told me about being a portuguese model (carregada and MP markings)

Thanks for your interest.

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Juan,

What is the serial number on the front of the frame of your gun, just above the trigger guard ?

Here is a previous discussion with info. on the "MP" stamping :

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...5&highlight=MP

BTW...the Portuguese holster for their M943 model (your holster style) can be found with 4-digits stamped in the leather....Not sure if that stamping is for a gun serial number (SN) or an issue/property number

[sepolvora]

Mr. Ebink
Unfortunately I am at work, do don't have the gun at hand

but the serial # is 8036, stamped all over the gun, wholy or just the two last digits.
I read the thread and found those guns very nice, but the MP mark in mine is a tad larger than the ones I saw. I'll try to get a better picture tonight. also of the marking at the base of the barrel.

I agree the holster looks like the portuguese 43 contract you and other gentleman pointed me to look.

I believed it was some duty holster made after the IIWW to be used by eastern germany police.

BtW; can you tell me something about the fxo 37 magazines?

thanks in advance, I understand when you know so much about any subject is a real pain in the neck try to explain certain thinks to the uninitiated (why don't buy a new gun instead looking for older ones? and many others)

[LugerVern]

Hi Juan

Very interesting luger you have.
I would be interested in a picture of the left frame without the grip on.
Is there writing in the safety lever area, a picture here would be nice also.


Just trying to understand what we are looking at here, as you said earlier your gun has gone through some changes and it is fun for us to analyze those changes. Its all part of learning more about our collections, please be patient with us.

Thanks

Vern

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Juan,

Reason I asked for the gun's SN was to determine what your gun may have started its life as. The "8026" on the chamber may have been the odd placment of a Portuguese property number placement.

Is "8026" also stamped on the front of the frame, just above the trigger guard ?

Can you tell if you see any evidence that an original RP/Anchor crest marking was removed from the top of the chamber.

The fxo37 magazines are from WWII Mauser Lugers. Mauser made the Portuguese M943 model contract for the Portuguese as well in 1943.

Many of the Portuguese Lugers (M943's) show up in the USA parkerized in a dull, rough black finish.

The placement of the 2-digit SN on the side of the trigger plate and left side of the TD lever are not consistent with the RP Portuguese Lugers and their MP stampings...I believe the RP Lugers have the commercial, hidden placement of 2-digit SN's.

So your Luger is some mystery...

[sepolvora]

Please Mr. Lugervern:
I am already in debt with you all for paying attention to my post and inquiries.

As soon as I get to my house early, which won't be today, I'll take some pictures of those markings, including one without the grips.
It's the least I can do for your kindness.
Oh! That and invite you a cold beer if you drop by here someday!

[sepolvora]

many years later...
Sepolvora showed up again, this time with new pictures...










Sorry Again. I hope this time the pictures will be a bit better.

Saludos

[LugerVern]

Hi Juan

Nice to hear from you again.

The â??MPâ?� inspector stamp looks authentic to me.
In 1912 the Portuguese Navy ordered 300 Lugers from DWM, these are commonly called RP Crown lugers as they had the Republic of Portugal crest on the receiver. The crest has been removed from your gun. These guns had a serial range of 350 to 650, at about SN 500 the MP stamp stops being used so your guns upper receiver original SN was between 350 and 500. we can determine the original serial number of your gun by looking at the bottom of the upper receiver near the lug, there should be two numbers on the lug and another one off the lug.
The guns lower frame is interesting the RP lugers were originally grip safety models and your gun is not. So it has been converted â??the grip safety removed and a post 1916 relieved sear bar installed. I believe the frame is original to the gun as the worker marks are consistent with the RPâ??s that I own and have documented.
The guns serial number has been modified, the original three digits have been over stamped and a 2 added to the beginning of the number.

I would like to know what the original serial number of the gun was, there are not many Portuguese Navyâ??s and even though yours has been modified it looks to be authentic â??why it has been changed and how many more suffered the same fate may never be know.

By the way, can you describe the magazine/s that came with your gun?
Any markings on the bottom?

Looking forward to your reply!

Vern

[sepolvora]

here are the pictures (second try)