Best Lugers for rebarrel / custom calibers ?

lfid · 10-01-2011, 04:10 PM

Regarding ease of rebarreling, it would seem that the best would be the 194x Mauser Lugers

And would also seem they would be best for metal strength, tighter build tolerances, any design updates, etc - so would be more likely suitable for conversion to larger than 9mm Luger calibers

Any comments / ideas are appreciated
Thanks
Bill

sheepherder · 10-01-2011, 06:53 PM

Are you going to machine your own larger-than-9mm breechblock???

Hugh · 10-02-2011, 01:52 AM

If you plan to do any milling on the toggles, be aware that the Mauser's are VERY much harder than DWM/Erfurt toggles. I ruined two expensive carbide dovetail cutters cutting a dovetail in a Mauser rear toggle for an adjustable sight.

sheepherder · 10-02-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfid

And would also seem they would be best for metal strength, tighter build tolerances, any design updates, etc - so would be more likely suitable for conversion to larger than 9mm Luger calibers

IIRC, Martz made his 45 Lugers by cutting two Lugers in half [unequally] and welded the larger halves together...(I'm not completely sure about this as I've seen pics of Lugers being cut several ways and welded together...)

Were you going to try making a 45 Luger? Or maybe something not requiring welding; maybe a 40 cal or 10mm?

I think [IMHO] that the firing of submachinegun 9mm ammunition in the Luger and the subsequent damage has pretty much proven (to me at least) that the Luger is at the limit of its design in the 9mm Parabellum cartridge. Recall that Georg Luger redesigned the C93 Borchardt mechanisms around the 7.65mm cartridge to make his famous creation...

My personal preference would be to go the other way...Bottleneck a 9mm cartridge to a smaller caliber...Rick W. has done some work in this area...

I once made a long barreled Mauser C96 to fire a .256 cal bullet; using bottlenecked cut-down .223 cases...Cut to length and run through .256 Winchester reloading dies...

I still have my [typewritten!] notes...and the Mauser .256 barrel...(I posted a pic of it here some time back)...

Wildcatting can be great fun...

lfid · 10-02-2011, 05:54 PM

postino , Hugh , thanks for your comments

I think for customs with rear sight that a silver soldered base on toggle plus a locked down windage only rear sight would work as soldered base seems to be the case with the Dewey custom lugers that were mostly all 9mm. There seems to be no reported failures for the Dewey rear sights.
Elevation would be in front sight likely with replacable blades easiest method

For longer barrels I think the sights both on barrel and windage and elevation in rear but still with a replaceable front blade , like the Wyatt 45 Lugers

Breechblock would be original but with cartridge pocket cut to larger diameter , extractor and ejector sightly relieved as needed

Agree wildcats also cool, likely use optic sight mounted on the left side frame flat
Wildcats with long barrel say 10 to 12 inches

And so far I have found best original trigger pull to be a two stage but crisp break at 4 pounds
But expect to be able to improve on that mix and match experiment

Thanks for all comments !!!
Bill

Michael Zeleny · 10-03-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

I think [IMHO] that the firing of submachinegun 9mm ammunition in the Luger and the subsequent damage has pretty much proven (to me at least) that the Luger is at the limit of its design in the 9mm Parabellum cartridge. Recall that Georg Luger redesigned the C93 Borchardt mechanisms around the 7.65mm cartridge to make his famous creation...

My personal preference would be to go the other way...Bottleneck a 9mm cartridge to a smaller caliber...Rick W. has done some work in this area...

Actually, 9mm Para is well past the limit of Luger's design, originally meant by its maker to accommodate bottleneck ammo up to 8mm in bore size. My thinking is to up the charge of the 7.65 Para round in conjunction with a heavier and longer barrel and a stouter recoil spring.

Hugh · 10-10-2011, 12:39 AM

I think the ideal adjustable rear sight for a Luger is the old style MMC sight that Skeeter Skelton used on his custom Luger. I have a copy of his Shooting Times Nov 1971 article on customizing his Luger if anyone wants a copy. I also have a few of the MMC sights like he used that I will be willing to part with for a nominal fee!

Ron Wood · 10-10-2011, 02:22 AM

Hugh,
Skeeter's MMC sight was a custom job that was the same width as the toggle link and the whole thing, adjusting screws and all, would fit between the receiver rails. If you have one of those, consider it sold!
Ron

sheepherder · 10-10-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

I have a copy of his Shooting Times Nov 1971 article on customizing his Luger if anyone wants a copy.

I would like a copy, please.

Rich B.

nukem556 · 10-10-2011, 01:01 PM

Been thinking along these lines, too...I'd like a copy of the article!

Ice · 10-10-2011, 06:24 PM

Hugh, I think I'd like a copy of the article and one of those MMC rear sights too. I'm set to take PM's.

Charlie

LugerVern · 10-11-2011, 09:59 PM

If memory serves the 30 cal luger round was thought to be a proven round for taking game. But it wasn't your average 30 cal round but one specifically made for the carbine. This was later phased out because people would use it in the regular lugers and damage their guns.

I could be wrong but that's how I remember it

I like the idea of a bottle neck round, you can get some interesting powder burning curves that just don't happen with straight wall rounds. The new powders on the market produce lower pressure curves and might prove handy in developing a hot new luger round.

Good Luck!
Please let us know all that you find out

Vern

10-01-2011, 04:10 PM	#1
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Best Lugers for rebarrel / custom calibers ? Regarding ease of rebarreling, it would seem that the best would be the 194x Mauser Lugers And would also seem they would be best for metal strength, tighter build tolerances, any design updates, etc - so would be more likely suitable for conversion to larger than 9mm Luger calibers Any comments / ideas are appreciated Thanks Bill

10-01-2011, 06:53 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Are you going to machine your own larger-than-9mm breechblock??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

10-02-2011, 01:52 AM	#3
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	If you plan to do any milling on the toggles, be aware that the Mauser's are VERY much harder than DWM/Erfurt toggles. I ruined two expensive carbide dovetail cutters cutting a dovetail in a Mauser rear toggle for an adjustable sight. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

10-10-2011, 12:39 AM	#7
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I think the ideal adjustable rear sight for a Luger is the old style MMC sight that Skeeter Skelton used on his custom Luger. I have a copy of his Shooting Times Nov 1971 article on customizing his Luger if anyone wants a copy. I also have a few of the MMC sights like he used that I will be willing to part with for a nominal fee! __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

10-10-2011, 02:22 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Hugh, Skeeter's MMC sight was a custom job that was the same width as the toggle link and the whole thing, adjusting screws and all, would fit between the receiver rails. If you have one of those, consider it sold! Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-02-2011, 05:54 PM	#5
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	postino , Hugh , thanks for your comments I think for customs with rear sight that a silver soldered base on toggle plus a locked down windage only rear sight would work as soldered base seems to be the case with the Dewey custom lugers that were mostly all 9mm. There seems to be no reported failures for the Dewey rear sights. Elevation would be in front sight likely with replacable blades easiest method For longer barrels I think the sights both on barrel and windage and elevation in rear but still with a replaceable front blade , like the Wyatt 45 Lugers Breechblock would be original but with cartridge pocket cut to larger diameter , extractor and ejector sightly relieved as needed Agree wildcats also cool, likely use optic sight mounted on the left side frame flat Wildcats with long barrel say 10 to 12 inches And so far I have found best original trigger pull to be a two stage but crisp break at 4 pounds But expect to be able to improve on that mix and match experiment Thanks for all comments !!! Bill

10-10-2011, 01:01 PM	#10
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Been thinking along these lines, too...I'd like a copy of the article!

10-10-2011, 06:24 PM	#11
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Hugh, I think I'd like a copy of the article and one of those MMC rear sights too. I'm set to take PM's. Charlie

10-11-2011, 09:59 PM	#12
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	If memory serves the 30 cal luger round was thought to be a proven round for taking game. But it wasn't your average 30 cal round but one specifically made for the carbine. This was later phased out because people would use it in the regular lugers and damage their guns. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it I like the idea of a bottle neck round, you can get some interesting powder burning curves that just don't happen with straight wall rounds. The new powders on the market produce lower pressure curves and might prove handy in developing a hot new luger round. Good Luck! Please let us know all that you find out Vern