Help with DWM 9mm Luger Model and Proofs

tbeach · 04-11-2023, 09:36 PM

New member and first time posting here so please be kind! I was hoping this group could help me identify which model Luger this is as well as some of the Proofs. I see the N crown but there is also one that looks like a N* and one that looks like a pot with fire coming out of it if....hopefully that makes sense...I'm really not sure what it is. Thanks so much!

tbeach · 04-11-2023, 09:41 PM

More pics...

Kiwi · 04-12-2023, 11:08 AM

Time for some reading. Go to the top and download the FAQ's
https://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=35479

Beyond that I am sure others will provide information
You do have a mismatched gun as all the numbers do not match
The slightly rusted magazine could use a little oil and maybe very light steel wool to clean up, but others may tell you to not touch it as magazines also have value and any alteration/cleaning will detract. Oil would be OK but any polishing perhaps not.

Do perform the pencil in the barrel to determine if 9mm or 30 luger and read on the forums here about ammo it likes.

tbeach · 04-12-2023, 11:50 AM

@Kiwi Thanks for the link! I will take a look. The only mismatched number I saw was from the magazine bottom. Did you see something else? It is a 9mm…it has been cleaned, serviced and fired. The slightly rusted magazine doesn’t feed well…so not using it for now, not sure if it is something that can be repaired or if this is an issue with this design. The black magazine loads fine. Appreciate any other info you can offer…this is all new to me.

Mac Cat · 04-12-2023, 01:10 PM

My best guess is that this is a commercial DWM luger (Crown/N proof) converted to a Police luger, with a sear safety and a magazine safety (which appears to still be in place).

I would guess it was made after 1916, but that's the best I could guess.

The barrel is very hard for me to make out, but I think it is "8,82", which makes it a 9mm.

I don't see any mis-matched parts - everything I can make out seems to be marked "55" as it should be.

It was refinished and my guess is a DDR or VOPO overhaul. That may be where the weird "*/N" and flaming "pot" stamps came from.

There is an interesting dimple on the left side of the front sight, which makes me wonder if it was replaced at one time or just dented in some odd way.

The blue magazine on the left is a late model "FXO" magazine (WW-2 Mauser era).
The wood based magazine is probably the right type for this luger.

Edward Tinker · 04-12-2023, 01:55 PM

I'd agree with Mac Cat - went to police service, hard to say when before, as after WW1, DWM's had suffixes. And I think it went to the DDR

Vlim · 04-13-2023, 10:26 PM

Nothing to do with East-Germany.

Looks like a police pistol that was reproofed in Belgium.

tbeach · 04-17-2023, 09:42 PM

For those who have responded I am appreciative of your interest and support. Can you perhaps educate me as to how you drew your conclusions? I want to get smarter about this and don’t have an algorithm/formula for deciphering such things. My guess is that this is not that easy, there is too much variation and things weren’t always done consistently but nonetheless I am hoping for some pearls of wisdom. Also, any idea on value? I’m not planning to sell but would like to know what I have.

gunbugs · 04-18-2023, 01:36 AM

Most of the conclusions are from books, or personal knowledge. You could try finding a copy of "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by Wirnsberger to start with. Then the 3 volume set by Jan Still, "Imperial Lugers", "Weimar Lugers", and "Third Reich Lugers" would be useful as well. Plus a good old copy of "Lugers at Random", although somewhat dated, can still be a useful basic reference.

Dwight Gruber · 04-18-2023, 11:43 AM

This pistol started life as a military pistol, almost certainly WWI. All identifying military marks have been removed. The c/N proofs are the stamps of the civilian proof house in Suhl; they would have been applied after alteration to the pressure train--from the look of things, likely rebarreling--near Suhl, and consequent re-proofing.

The odd-looking "flaming bomb" proof marks are Belgian proofs, proofed and stamped in order that the pistol could be sold there.

Gunbugs is right about books and personal knowledge. Nothing is more important in this hobby than patience and experience.

--Dwight

tbeach · 04-22-2023, 02:41 PM

I think I found some references for the proof marks! Thanks for the bread crumbs!!!

Mac Cat · 04-22-2023, 06:57 PM

@tbeach Very cool !

Where did you find that reference ?

tbeach · 04-22-2023, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Cat

@tbeach Very cool !

Where did you find that reference ?

https://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

04-11-2023, 09:36 PM	#1
tbeach User Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	Help with DWM 9mm Luger Model and Proofs New member and first time posting here so please be kind! I was hoping this group could help me identify which model Luger this is as well as some of the Proofs. I see the N crown but there is also one that looks like a N* and one that looks like a pot with fire coming out of it if....hopefully that makes sense...I'm really not sure what it is. Thanks so much! Attached Thumbnails Last edited by tbeach; 04-12-2023 at 01:37 AM.

04-11-2023, 09:41 PM	#2
tbeach User Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	More pics More pics... Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

04-12-2023, 01:55 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,931 Thanks: 2,031 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	I'd agree with Mac Cat - went to police service, hard to say when before, as after WW1, DWM's had suffixes. And I think it went to the DDR __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-22-2023, 02:41 PM	#11
tbeach User Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	I think I found some references for the proof marks! Thanks for the bread crumbs!!! Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2023, 11:08 AM	#3
Kiwi User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Wrong side of the Delaware river Posts: 305 Thanks: 215 Thanked 434 Times in 171 Posts	Time for some reading. Go to the top and download the FAQ's https://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=35479 Beyond that I am sure others will provide information You do have a mismatched gun as all the numbers do not match The slightly rusted magazine could use a little oil and maybe very light steel wool to clean up, but others may tell you to not touch it as magazines also have value and any alteration/cleaning will detract. Oil would be OK but any polishing perhaps not. Do perform the pencil in the barrel to determine if 9mm or 30 luger and read on the forums here about ammo it likes.

04-12-2023, 11:50 AM	#4
tbeach User Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	@Kiwi Thanks for the link! I will take a look. The only mismatched number I saw was from the magazine bottom. Did you see something else? It is a 9mm…it has been cleaned, serviced and fired. The slightly rusted magazine doesn’t feed well…so not using it for now, not sure if it is something that can be repaired or if this is an issue with this design. The black magazine loads fine. Appreciate any other info you can offer…this is all new to me.

04-12-2023, 01:10 PM	#5
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 725 Thanks: 2,090 Thanked 606 Times in 327 Posts	My best guess is that this is a commercial DWM luger (Crown/N proof) converted to a Police luger, with a sear safety and a magazine safety (which appears to still be in place). I would guess it was made after 1916, but that's the best I could guess. The barrel is very hard for me to make out, but I think it is "8,82", which makes it a 9mm. I don't see any mis-matched parts - everything I can make out seems to be marked "55" as it should be. It was refinished and my guess is a DDR or VOPO overhaul. That may be where the weird "*/N" and flaming "pot" stamps came from. There is an interesting dimple on the left side of the front sight, which makes me wonder if it was replaced at one time or just dented in some odd way. The blue magazine on the left is a late model "FXO" magazine (WW-2 Mauser era). The wood based magazine is probably the right type for this luger.

04-13-2023, 10:26 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Nothing to do with East-Germany. Looks like a police pistol that was reproofed in Belgium.

04-17-2023, 09:42 PM	#8
tbeach User Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	For those who have responded I am appreciative of your interest and support. Can you perhaps educate me as to how you drew your conclusions? I want to get smarter about this and don’t have an algorithm/formula for deciphering such things. My guess is that this is not that easy, there is too much variation and things weren’t always done consistently but nonetheless I am hoping for some pearls of wisdom. Also, any idea on value? I’m not planning to sell but would like to know what I have.

04-18-2023, 01:36 AM	#9
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 658 Thanks: 365 Thanked 1,175 Times in 393 Posts	Most of the conclusions are from books, or personal knowledge. You could try finding a copy of "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by Wirnsberger to start with. Then the 3 volume set by Jan Still, "Imperial Lugers", "Weimar Lugers", and "Third Reich Lugers" would be useful as well. Plus a good old copy of "Lugers at Random", although somewhat dated, can still be a useful basic reference.

04-18-2023, 11:43 AM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,316 Times in 430 Posts	This pistol started life as a military pistol, almost certainly WWI. All identifying military marks have been removed. The c/N proofs are the stamps of the civilian proof house in Suhl; they would have been applied after alteration to the pressure train--from the look of things, likely rebarreling--near Suhl, and consequent re-proofing. The odd-looking "flaming bomb" proof marks are Belgian proofs, proofed and stamped in order that the pistol could be sold there. Gunbugs is right about books and personal knowledge. Nothing is more important in this hobby than patience and experience. --Dwight

04-22-2023, 06:57 PM	#12
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 725 Thanks: 2,090 Thanked 606 Times in 327 Posts	@tbeach Very cool ! Where did you find that reference ?