Boot Assembly For Shoulder Stock

Mauser720 · 08-22-2007, 06:16 PM

My artillery Luger holster and shoulder stock do not have any markings on them, so apparently they are reproductions even though they look old. The holster tip was jammed down toward the little leather cup or boot that goes over the end of the stock with the fastening "iron" on it. The result was that the leather ring that goes around the tip of the holster caused it to get squeezed in or dented. I cleaned the leather with saddle soap. Then I treated it with the Connolly Hide Care (formerly known as "Connolly Hide Food") as several other forum members advised me to do.

Whe I put everything back together, I noticed that one side of the little leather cup or boot that goes over the end of the stock is higher than the other side.

Purely by accident, I noticed that if you put the higher side of the cup toward the tip of the holster, this will prevent the holster from slipping downward and causing the tip of the holster to get dented or pinched in. When I received this rig, the tip of the holster was a little smashed in because of this.

I arranged it as you see in the photograph below, and I think this is a better way to put it back together. This way, the higher side of the little boot supports the thick bottom of the holster. And this tends to prevent it from getting pinched or dented by the leather ring that goes around the bottom.

If I am wrong about this, I would appreciate it if someone would please let me know.

Thank you,

Ron

laoshi75 · 08-22-2007, 08:41 PM

Ron, the higher side of the toe-cover must be on the other side of the stock; take a look at this photo. I believe the reason is to protect the locking system of the iron attach. but I am just a collector, and other members experts will confirm or not. christian

Mauser720 · 08-23-2007, 12:07 AM

Christian - Thank you for the good photograph of your stock boot. Yours appears to have two rivets that mine does not have. I suspect you are correct about the boot needing to cover the locking mechanism too. Since I think mine is a modern reproduction, it is always possible that it was not made correctly too.

Ron

George Anderson · 08-26-2007, 08:11 AM

Christian is correct, the higher contour on one side of the cup is intended to protect the lever. Some keeper straps have rivets while others are sewn.

Mauser720 · 08-26-2007, 08:31 AM

Christian and George -

Thank you both.

Ron

pisto · 08-27-2007, 11:32 AM

Interesting topic,
Christian, beatuiful holster set !
have 2 sets of them and on both are 2 rivets.
Also inside of one cup of my sets there is inside a different colour - seems a bit like red leather ore could it be paper?
Also this set is proof marked on the cup!

laoshi75 · 08-27-2007, 12:13 PM

Roland, photos would be welcome !!

George Anderson · 08-27-2007, 12:13 PM

Roland, what does the proof look like? Can you post photos?

The cups were lined with red dyed parchment or "gut".

lugerholsterrepair · 08-27-2007, 04:20 PM

The cups were lined with red dyed parchment or "gut".

Geeze George! I thought we had covered this pretty thouroughly and I had learned you better!

Parchment is common paper made of sheeps skin. I don't know what gut is but the inside of an Artillery boot it is not.

The Germans employed an ancient method inside an Artillery boot. This material is actually rawhide. It is leather that has had hair and inner layers of meat or fat removed and remains untanned.
Being untanned this material reacts very differently, drying to a translucent almost hard plastic consistancy.
The ancient Indians used this method in the bottom of their arrow quivers to prevent the ultra sharp obsidian arrow points from penetrating the bottoms.
It has always been a mystery to me as to why the Germans thought it was necessary in an Artillery boot. Seems like overkill.
I would suspect it was colored red as a michurochrome microbe killer. Since it is not tanned or treated but rawhide, it would stand to reason they used the same method they used on early WW1 linen thread to keep away microscopic bugs from rotting it or making it smell when wet.
This becomes a very tough liner in the Artillery boot for the stock iron. Like a cup. It was molded as a whole piece and if you look closely you will see some wrinkles where it bunches together.
Now you know!

Jerry Burney

laoshi75 · 08-27-2007, 04:37 PM

this photo illustrates the excellent post of Jerry.

Mauser720 · 08-27-2007, 09:44 PM

I'm wondering if the existence of this raw hide with the red tint might be a way differentiate a reproduction from a genuine stock cup? And, were all the genuine cups like the one shown by laoshi75 in his excellent photograph?

lugerholsterrepair · 08-27-2007, 10:36 PM

Ronald, There are many points to look for to determine a real period stock boot from a repro. The stock boot is fairly complex and difficult to make with any degree of authenticity. I know because I make them. In my boots I use a leather liner. It is double thickness and a very good looking example, authentic in most respects from the outside but I do not mold in a rawhide cup. It is about the only original method I do not employ in making a complete Artillery rig.
I have never actually seen a decent repro boot. Most are made with a single leather thickness and the tabs and keepers are sewn not riveted with hand hammered rivets.
All of the genuine WW1 period Artillery boots I have seen have the reddish rawhide cup. Unless of course it is missing.
Jerry Burney

Mauser720 · 08-28-2007, 07:58 AM

Jerry -

That's real good information. Thank you for the education.

Ron

08-22-2007, 06:16 PM	#1
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Boot Assembly For Shoulder Stock My artillery Luger holster and shoulder stock do not have any markings on them, so apparently they are reproductions even though they look old. The holster tip was jammed down toward the little leather cup or boot that goes over the end of the stock with the fastening "iron" on it. The result was that the leather ring that goes around the tip of the holster caused it to get squeezed in or dented. I cleaned the leather with saddle soap. Then I treated it with the Connolly Hide Care (formerly known as "Connolly Hide Food") as several other forum members advised me to do. Whe I put everything back together, I noticed that one side of the little leather cup or boot that goes over the end of the stock is higher than the other side. Purely by accident, I noticed that if you put the higher side of the cup toward the tip of the holster, this will prevent the holster from slipping downward and causing the tip of the holster to get dented or pinched in. When I received this rig, the tip of the holster was a little smashed in because of this. I arranged it as you see in the photograph below, and I think this is a better way to put it back together. This way, the higher side of the little boot supports the thick bottom of the holster. And this tends to prevent it from getting pinched or dented by the leather ring that goes around the bottom. If I am wrong about this, I would appreciate it if someone would please let me know. Thank you, Ron Attached Thumbnails

08-22-2007, 08:41 PM	#2
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	Ron, the higher side of the toe-cover must be on the other side of the stock; take a look at this photo. I believe the reason is to protect the locking system of the iron attach. but I am just a collector, and other members experts will confirm or not. christian Attached Thumbnails

08-23-2007, 12:07 AM	#3
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Christian - Thank you for the good photograph of your stock boot. Yours appears to have two rivets that mine does not have. I suspect you are correct about the boot needing to cover the locking mechanism too. Since I think mine is a modern reproduction, it is always possible that it was not made correctly too. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-26-2007, 08:31 AM	#5
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Christian and George - Thank you both. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-27-2007, 04:20 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	The cups were lined with red dyed parchment or "gut". Geeze George! I thought we had covered this pretty thouroughly and I had learned you better! Parchment is common paper made of sheeps skin. I don't know what gut is but the inside of an Artillery boot it is not. The Germans employed an ancient method inside an Artillery boot. This material is actually rawhide. It is leather that has had hair and inner layers of meat or fat removed and remains untanned. Being untanned this material reacts very differently, drying to a translucent almost hard plastic consistancy. The ancient Indians used this method in the bottom of their arrow quivers to prevent the ultra sharp obsidian arrow points from penetrating the bottoms. It has always been a mystery to me as to why the Germans thought it was necessary in an Artillery boot. Seems like overkill. I would suspect it was colored red as a michurochrome microbe killer. Since it is not tanned or treated but rawhide, it would stand to reason they used the same method they used on early WW1 linen thread to keep away microscopic bugs from rotting it or making it smell when wet. This becomes a very tough liner in the Artillery boot for the stock iron. Like a cup. It was molded as a whole piece and if you look closely you will see some wrinkles where it bunches together. Now you know! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-26-2007, 08:11 AM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Christian is correct, the higher contour on one side of the cup is intended to protect the lever. Some keeper straps have rivets while others are sewn.

08-27-2007, 11:32 AM	#6
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Interesting topic, Christian, beatuiful holster set ! have 2 sets of them and on both are 2 rivets. Also inside of one cup of my sets there is inside a different colour - seems a bit like red leather ore could it be paper? Also this set is proof marked on the cup!

08-27-2007, 12:13 PM	#7
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	Roland, photos would be welcome !!

08-27-2007, 04:37 PM	#10
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	this photo illustrates the excellent post of Jerry. Attached Thumbnails

08-27-2007, 09:44 PM	#11
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	I'm wondering if the existence of this raw hide with the red tint might be a way differentiate a reproduction from a genuine stock cup? And, were all the genuine cups like the one shown by laoshi75 in his excellent photograph? __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

08-27-2007, 10:36 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Ronald, There are many points to look for to determine a real period stock boot from a repro. The stock boot is fairly complex and difficult to make with any degree of authenticity. I know because I make them. In my boots I use a leather liner. It is double thickness and a very good looking example, authentic in most respects from the outside but I do not mold in a rawhide cup. It is about the only original method I do not employ in making a complete Artillery rig. I have never actually seen a decent repro boot. Most are made with a single leather thickness and the tabs and keepers are sewn not riveted with hand hammered rivets. All of the genuine WW1 period Artillery boots I have seen have the reddish rawhide cup. Unless of course it is missing. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-28-2007, 07:58 AM	#13
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Jerry - That's real good information. Thank you for the education. Ron __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."