2nd new shooter - another 1900

Levallois · 06-07-2008, 05:11 PM

Sounds repetitive and some people may think boring! I can't help it - I really like the way the 1900s look.

A little while back I got no. 8115 - refinished - all matching except for the Swiss grips and marked "Germany."

And this week I got no. 21430 - thanks Ed!. This one is another shooter that has about 75 percent original blue and 40 percent straw - quite a bit of holster wear - it's a non-USA import commercial, i.e., "BUG proofs" and no Germany. I guess this serial number is toward the end of 1900 production? Dwight has three other commercials on his list around this number - 21408, 21588 and 21592 but most in this serial number range appear to be carbines or Swiss?

I have a question about the end of the serial numbers stamped on other parts with this later 1900. The earlier 1900 has just the last two digits stamped on all the parts, while the later 1900 has some parts with the last three digits stamped on them. Is this normal? To his credit the seller mentioned that there might be some parts with "overstamped" numbers. The toggle sure looks like it with the "4" of 430 on the back being a definite overstamp. The others I'm not so sure.

The toggle, trigger plate and grip safety all have "430" on them, while the trigger and locking bolt have just 30 stamped on them. Any opinions, insights, etc. will be greatly appreciated.

Photos are coming.

Thanks!,

John

MFC · 06-08-2008, 12:42 AM

Hi John,
Glad to hear you got another one. I have Comm. #16322, BUG proofs, no GERMANY, not as late as yours, but stamped exactly as yours is, "322" in the same places. Mine was on Dwights database at one time, but it went away. Don't know why.
Mike C.

Levallois · 06-08-2008, 01:19 PM

Mike,

I appreciate the reply and description of your gun. You made me go back to check Dwight's list more closely - looks like there are a lot of 1900s in the later range with 3-digit parts. Thanks for confirming which parts had the 3-digits.

The overstamping is another thing - is there any evidence that this was done at the factory at the end of the 1900 production run or is this someone trying to make replacement parts match on a gun? One thing, if the toggle is a replacement it was done a long time ago as the patina all matches perfectly. I guess it is unreasonable to think that parts wouldn't have worn out or have broken.

Something else that was curious about 21430 is that it had three leaves in the main spring - the normal 2-leaf spring with another added on top but not attached. It seemed to work fine but I was able to find a couple of brand new springs and replaced the old ones on this and 8115, just in case. I got to get out and shoot these things !!!!

By the by, your gun is on the version of Dwight's list that I have - version 3.1 - 1/1/08

John

Levallois · 06-08-2008, 03:43 PM

The aforementioned "late" model commercial M1900 - one of Ed's photos of it as the girl-child has the digital today. Nothing spectacular, just a well-worn old shooter.

MFC · 06-08-2008, 07:11 PM

John,
I would guess that the third leaf was added to strenghten a weak spring. A good idea, without having to buy another spring. I bet there aren't many people shooting a M1900 anymore, let alone an all matching one. She's still pretty after 106 years. I put one mag through mine when I got it. It was the smoothest shooting semi auto pistol I've shot. I really want to shoot it again... but probably won't.
Thanks for the heads up on the ver. 3 database... many more #'s and mines back.
Mike C.

Hugh · 06-08-2008, 08:38 PM

Recently aquired a 2nd 1900 AE and when I received it noticed the the serial number is only 83 digits from my other one. Both of these have been "restored" but one is rust blue and the other is "dip" blued.

Edward Tinker · 06-08-2008, 09:02 PM

nice guys, I will have to find out who this Ed guy is and get some 1900's!

ed

MFC · 06-08-2008, 09:13 PM

Very neat Hugh,
They were probably made the same day and there back together again after all those years.
Mike C.

Levallois · 06-09-2008, 02:46 AM

Mike - that's what Edward Tinker thought as well - makes sense.

Nice set Hugh! Love those M1900s.

Ed - I didn't know if you wanted your full name used and yet I wanted to acknowledge you. So, do you have any more 1900s for sale?

John

Hugh · 06-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Checked my two, & even tho they were made the same day or at least the same week, there is a difference in the "2 or 3 digit" placement:

SN 13310: last three digits on breechblock, rear toggle & grip safety,
last two digits on sideplate, bolt, trigger, middle toggle & grips.

SN 13398: last three digits on sideplate & grip safety,
last two digits on breech block, middle toggle, bolt, trigger, grips un-numbered.

John Sabato · 06-10-2008, 02:20 PM

Just to let you 1900 folks know, I am still working on creating reproduction flat springs, and will update the forum when I am successful...

Edward Tinker · 06-10-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Levallois

Ed - I didn't know if you wanted your full name used and yet I wanted to acknowledge you. So, do you have any more 1900s for sale?

John

John I am pretty security conscious, but on the boards, well, I switched over to my real name when the Simson book came out (self serving I know

but oh well

).

No, you bought the last of the Arizona collection, so all those 1900's, 1902's and 1906's are now sold.

But, I am looking for small collections

for *good prices*

Ed

jamese · 06-15-2008, 07:17 AM

John,
was that broken spring any help to ya ?
I'm glad I kept it all these years in my Luger junk drawer

Jim

alvin · 06-15-2008, 09:11 AM

Putting production volume & age into consideration, I have not figured out wether S/42 being overpriced or AE 1900 being underpriced on the market. Is it because ammo price? Shooting 7,65 is not unlike driving SUV these days.

John Sabato · 06-16-2008, 12:11 AM

jamese,

The spring you sent will be invaluable during my experiments to create a modern replacement. I will eventually send it back to you with a prototype for testing

Mike B · 06-16-2008, 01:42 AM

John,
I have a broken flat main spring that you are welcome to. Email bayoucellar@aol.com if you are interested.
Mike

Levallois · 06-17-2008, 02:31 PM

Hugh,

Have you shot either of your two yet? And, if so, what did you think?

I was waiting for recently purchased NOS flat S-springs and then Fiocchi ammo for my two and now that I have both it's freakin 113 degrees outside!

John

06-08-2008, 12:42 AM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Hi John, Glad to hear you got another one. I have Comm. #16322, BUG proofs, no GERMANY, not as late as yours, but stamped exactly as yours is, "322" in the same places. Mine was on Dwights database at one time, but it went away. Don't know why. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

06-08-2008, 07:11 PM	#5
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	John, I would guess that the third leaf was added to strenghten a weak spring. A good idea, without having to buy another spring. I bet there aren't many people shooting a M1900 anymore, let alone an all matching one. She's still pretty after 106 years. I put one mag through mine when I got it. It was the smoothest shooting semi auto pistol I've shot. I really want to shoot it again... but probably won't. Thanks for the heads up on the ver. 3 database... many more #'s and mines back. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

06-08-2008, 08:38 PM	#6
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	A pair of 1900's Recently aquired a 2nd 1900 AE and when I received it noticed the the serial number is only 83 digits from my other one. Both of these have been "restored" but one is rust blue and the other is "dip" blued. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

06-08-2008, 09:02 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,929 Thanks: 2,029 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	nice guys, I will have to find out who this Ed guy is and get some 1900's! ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

06-08-2008, 09:13 PM	#8
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Very neat Hugh, They were probably made the same day and there back together again after all those years. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

06-07-2008, 05:11 PM	#1
Levallois User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	2nd new shooter - another 1900 Sounds repetitive and some people may think boring! I can't help it - I really like the way the 1900s look. A little while back I got no. 8115 - refinished - all matching except for the Swiss grips and marked "Germany." And this week I got no. 21430 - thanks Ed!. This one is another shooter that has about 75 percent original blue and 40 percent straw - quite a bit of holster wear - it's a non-USA import commercial, i.e., "BUG proofs" and no Germany. I guess this serial number is toward the end of 1900 production? Dwight has three other commercials on his list around this number - 21408, 21588 and 21592 but most in this serial number range appear to be carbines or Swiss? I have a question about the end of the serial numbers stamped on other parts with this later 1900. The earlier 1900 has just the last two digits stamped on all the parts, while the later 1900 has some parts with the last three digits stamped on them. Is this normal? To his credit the seller mentioned that there might be some parts with "overstamped" numbers. The toggle sure looks like it with the "4" of 430 on the back being a definite overstamp. The others I'm not so sure. The toggle, trigger plate and grip safety all have "430" on them, while the trigger and locking bolt have just 30 stamped on them. Any opinions, insights, etc. will be greatly appreciated. Photos are coming. Thanks!, John

06-08-2008, 01:19 PM	#3
Levallois User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	Mike, I appreciate the reply and description of your gun. You made me go back to check Dwight's list more closely - looks like there are a lot of 1900s in the later range with 3-digit parts. Thanks for confirming which parts had the 3-digits. The overstamping is another thing - is there any evidence that this was done at the factory at the end of the 1900 production run or is this someone trying to make replacement parts match on a gun? One thing, if the toggle is a replacement it was done a long time ago as the patina all matches perfectly. I guess it is unreasonable to think that parts wouldn't have worn out or have broken. Something else that was curious about 21430 is that it had three leaves in the main spring - the normal 2-leaf spring with another added on top but not attached. It seemed to work fine but I was able to find a couple of brand new springs and replaced the old ones on this and 8115, just in case. I got to get out and shoot these things !!!! By the by, your gun is on the version of Dwight's list that I have - version 3.1 - 1/1/08 John

06-08-2008, 03:43 PM	#4
Levallois User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	The aforementioned "late" model commercial M1900 - one of Ed's photos of it as the girl-child has the digital today. Nothing spectacular, just a well-worn old shooter.

06-09-2008, 02:46 AM	#9
Levallois User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	Mike - that's what Edward Tinker thought as well - makes sense. Nice set Hugh! Love those M1900s. Ed - I didn't know if you wanted your full name used and yet I wanted to acknowledge you. So, do you have any more 1900s for sale? John

06-09-2008, 01:40 PM	#10
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Serial Number Placement Checked my two, & even tho they were made the same day or at least the same week, there is a difference in the "2 or 3 digit" placement: SN 13310: last three digits on breechblock, rear toggle & grip safety, last two digits on sideplate, bolt, trigger, middle toggle & grips. SN 13398: last three digits on sideplate & grip safety, last two digits on breech block, middle toggle, bolt, trigger, grips un-numbered. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

06-10-2008, 02:20 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Just to let you 1900 folks know, I am still working on creating reproduction flat springs, and will update the forum when I am successful... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-15-2008, 07:17 AM	#13
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	John, was that broken spring any help to ya ? I'm glad I kept it all these years in my Luger junk drawer Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

06-15-2008, 09:11 AM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Putting production volume & age into consideration, I have not figured out wether S/42 being overpriced or AE 1900 being underpriced on the market. Is it because ammo price? Shooting 7,65 is not unlike driving SUV these days.

06-16-2008, 12:11 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	jamese, The spring you sent will be invaluable during my experiments to create a modern replacement. I will eventually send it back to you with a prototype for testing __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-16-2008, 01:42 AM	#16
Mike B Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 979 Thanks: 1 Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts	John, I have a broken flat main spring that you are welcome to. Email bayoucellar@aol.com if you are interested. Mike

06-17-2008, 02:31 PM	#17
Levallois User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	Hugh, Have you shot either of your two yet? And, if so, what did you think? I was waiting for recently purchased NOS flat S-springs and then Fiocchi ammo for my two and now that I have both it's freakin 113 degrees outside! John