Nice LP-08 on Auction

[Pete Ebbink]

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=16146955

Grip checkering looks out of the ordinary...IMHO

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[lugerholsterrepair]

Pete, Man! This Wonan is thourough! Detail's pluss some...I wish all listings were like hers. Really get a good look at this pistol.

I don't know what to say about the grips. I have never seen anything quite like them. Large diamond pattern and looks sanded down. Kinda remindes me of KNIL or Wood Kriegs but altogether different. I would be interested to know if these are serial number marked on the inside.I hate to ask her as she looks like she puts a great deal of work into her business and I am not going to buy the pistol, it is only curiosity. Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Looks a lot like KNIL. They obviously weren't made for the early Dutch grip safety type Lugers, but they might be Geweermakersschool replacement grips made for the later 1928 Dutch Navy contract. Checkering for a DWM artillery should be about 1mm or roughly 20 lpi. These grips are almost twice as coarse, being around 12-13 lpi. Also, the pattern (slant of the checkering lines with respect to the frame) is closer to the pre-1903 pattern than the style that would be correct for a 1917. If I were a betting man, I would wager the grips are Dutch.

[John Sabato]

Dutch/Vickers would be my guess too Ron. The grips don't look new enough to be repros with flat diamonds to me...

[Pete Ebbink]

I also liked the detailed explanation of her 3-day inspection period...at first I taught it a bit severe...but then it started to make sense...

Here is another gun dealer that uses really nice, clear, detailed photos of his guns for sale. He even has a luger section (hint, hint...).

http://www.joesalter.com/index.html

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[Dwight Gruber]

I bought a pair of these grips on ebay (got a singleton from Tom Heller). They were sold to me as Dutch grips, the ebay seller said they were P-08 grips from a parted out Dutch Luger. The one from Tom was virtually new; of the pair one shows evidence of having been on a gun for a while, the other seems newer.

None of the grips have markings inside, neither numbers nor a GS stamp. The ones I have are definitely P-08 grips, I wanted grip safety grips for my Dutch 06 Lugers and these are not relieved for a grip safety.

They are also different from what are commonly recognized as Dutch/Vickers grips. The usual Dutch grips are made of a dark, soft wood, crudely manufactured, larger than usual checkering diamonds, and the grips themselves are very thick in profile, extremely hand-filling.

These other grips are made of a lighter-shade, harder wood. They are quite well manufactured, the diamonds are much larger than even regular Dutch grips, very shallow-cut and flat. The grip panels are noteably thin in profile.

Here is a photo comparison, sorry the view is not better but its from photos which I have on file, not taken for the specific comparison. I think it will serve, however.
--Dwight

[Vlim]

Hi,

Took a look at the grips on the LP08 and I agree they're definately not KNIL grips. The KNIL grips are coarser than the original grips, but do have the raised checkers, as shown in Dwights picture.

Please note that the Dutch lugers used by the Dutch Navy were P08 pattern guns without grip safety.

[Big Norm]

I finally got a chance to look at this LP-08 that is for sale. A recent corruption of my computers system has lost all my bookmarks so I am unable to connect with GunBroker using my Bookmarks to that sites old version.

I don't know if my coming discussion should be put here or on the Discussion section of Lugerforum. But it seems to apply to this sale so I am going to post it in the Artillery section.

I am always leary of buying guns on site that give no inspection periods. Lugers are expensive articles and pictures do not give a true perspective on the quality of the weapon. It is also a real hassle to return anything bought on the internet. I particularly don't like the generally accepted policy of paying for shipping both ways.

I see where Suzy (this LP-08's seller) does not offer an inspection period except where there is gross misrepresentation. I also sent an email to our old buddy from Corpus Cove, Texas regarding a navy 1908 that he is selling and found out that he also does not give an inspection period. His explaination was the same as it was from Suzy.

At first, I was upset and figured that these were just dealers in junk and they wanted to just take the money and run. But then I called an old girlfriend on mine. Surprisingly, I found out that she was also involved in commercial selling on Ebay. We talked about this selling of articles on the internet and the "No Inspection Period" problem. My thinking on this problem now is a bit different. Scams by buyers as well as sellers on the internet is pretty wide spread. Even money orders are not that secure. But she did give me some tips and virtually guarteed herself a dinner date in the near future for me to learn more.

If you are dealing with a foreign buyer, many times
your bank will not cash a MO from a foreign country or may charge a steep fee for doing so. Check with the post office. She said that the post office has a list of countries that they will cash a POST OFFICE money order from that country. I do not know the details of this or whether or not the post office will cash U.S. Post Office MO's. It seems logical that the would. I need to do some more research on this matter. But it could give sellers another level of security without the long wait and maybe big fees at banks.

Another thing that she mentioned is that if you use "Paypal" (which is owned by Ebay), you will get no help from them in getting your money back. The thing that most buyers forget is that if you paid by credit card, you can go to the credit card people and cancel your payment. The credit card people are very helpful. She says that a surprisingly large number of people give up after getting no help from "Paypal". Of course this does open another can of worms for the honest seller.

Local police are of little help because it is out of their jurisdiction. On rare situations, according to an auction newsletter that I get, an individual police officer might take some individual effort and expose a much larger criminal activity. But this is rare.

The FBI is supposed to handle internet fraud but they don't seem to want to bother if the amount is small. Most likely it is not financially worth while to go to another state to hire an attorney for a $10 item. But she told me that she has had some success calling another states autorney general. It may take some time for the wheels of justice to turn, but for her, it did work in Ohio. She lives and works in Michigan. Too bad that this will not work in countries outside of the USA.

Things are looking a bit better though. Lawmakers are working on laws to force banks to process money orders and out-of-state checks faster. But that process is still in the works.

I still think that I will rarely deal with big ticket items on the internet with no inspection periods. But my girl friend will be seen more often in the near future, if for no other reason than for me to learn more from her. The internet offers just too much potential.

Big Norm

[George Anderson]

Norm, I have bought from the guy in Coperas Cove and he sells conterfeits and fakes. I have kept the goods I bought from him as well as the invoices, cancelled checks, etc. should he want to challenge what I say hear or threaten me. I have always made it a point to keep the evidence when I've been screwed.

[George Anderson]

The old babe in North Carolina seems to me to be straight up and honest.

[Henry Bucki]

Why do people hide the serial number on guns they post on the internet? Is it that they are afraid it may have been stolen at one time? or are they afraid of uncle sam?

[Edward Tinker]

Henry, I sometimes find it odd and posted this the other day, but I think on another forum!
I believe you are right, and here is what I beleive.

1. They are afraid uncle sam will visit
2. They are afraid that it was stolen, or someone will say it was stolen
3. They are afraid someone will buy the gun, return it, minus a matching number (to a gun they have at home, making their mismatch, a match and this one now a mismatch...

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

George, whenever i've been screwed I try to get rid of the evidence, afraid my Wife will find it.....Just kidding! I don't see anyone buy anything from this guy as his prices are high and he puts a reserve on top of that! I have yet to talk with anyone who believes he is doing it right. Curious that someone with as much Luger stuff as he would do that. Takes all kinds I guess. Jerry Burney

[Big Norm]

George,
I think that you got it right on both of your above points.

Ed,
you hit it on the nose, as usual. Although I wonder why anyone would worry about our uncle in the government business. They are smarter than that.
Doesn't it just get you sick to think that someone would ruin a matching gun just to steal one part. These parts are available all over the internet and from parts dealers. With a little patience, you can find anything you want there. Real chinsy, cheap and lazy if you ask me. I guess that I am just too honest.

Jerry,
The guy said that he is handicapped. If that is true, then it looks to me that he may buy at regular prices at gun shows and try to make a few bucks on the internet in an auction feeding frenzy. The mix and match 1908 navy would possibly be a good example. I was thinking about it until the price got to where I thought it should be and then backed off. Personally, the last price that I remember of about $3500+ is a too high. It did not hit the reserve price yet at that price. Also, I think I remember TomA had a bad experience with him.

To all,
I hope that my previous book-like post gave some people some ideas about working with foreign buyers/sellers. The idea of contacting a states attorney gerneral sounds pretty good too. When I have my date with my lady friend, professional Ebay seller, I hope that she will give me some more wisdom. I was going to post some more ideas but my previous post got too long as it was.
Big Norm

[Doubs]

IMO the guy from Copperas Cove, TX, is too clever by half. He does everything wrong.... IF you're a knowledgeable collector with any experience at all!! He runs us off and is left only with the beginners and newbies. Terrible photographs, high reserves and instructions to not ask for his reserve price. Not to mention descriptions that tell us nothing worth knowing. I believe that he works - hard - at making sure that anyone who knows their stuff is sufficiently warned away from his wares and thus he avoids having to deal with us. He sends up red flag after red flag on purpose. That's my opinion, anyway.

[John Sabato]

Ladies & Gentlemen,

While I concur completely with Doubs last post, I think we have gotten way off the path with this thread... I think all points are well taken and we should close this discussion. I will leave what has been said here, but if the discussion about individual dealer(s) is to continue, please move your comments to the General Discussion forum... and please continue to mind your ettiquette in a civilized manner. I am proud of you all... This is a volatile subject.