Questions regarding my Interarms Luger--9mm

sharpsman2002 · 09-11-2003, 11:20 PM

Two questions:

Serial # on my gun is 11.0077xx. When was this produced (don't have the test target which usually had date)?

And, in the accessories box I have a brass cleaning rod (no brush) with oval loop. I've seen other Interarms Lugers (specifically in .30 caliber) that came with a wire wrapped cleaning rod with bristle brushes attached to the rod (perfectly round loop end). Which is correct? Did they provide two different brushes for .30 vs 9mm?

Thanks,

Doug

Steve Richards · 09-12-2003, 01:22 AM

This may or may not help. Mine is 10.00.13XX and is dated Dec. 1970. I do not know how the numbers run when comparing .30's to 9mm.

Steve

Edward Tinker · 09-12-2003, 02:02 AM

Steve, do you happen to have "The Mauser Parabellum", by Francis Allan? It is on the newer guns, and is a good one.

In it he states the following:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Serial Numbers
With the exception of the "RG" and Commemoratives series, all serial numbers were prefixed by two numeric digits indicating the caliber of the pistol. Under this system, the number "1011 represents .30 cal Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), "11" represents 9mm Luger (9mm Parabellum), and "12" was reserved for .22 cal versions that were never built.
All standard model pistols have the serial number stamped on the frame in the right trigger well and on the right side of the receiver fork above the ejector. The serial numbers of both the "RG" and Commemorative series appear in cartouche'. Most guns have the last three digits of the serial number roughly etched on the underside of the rear toggle-link. The series notations below are intended for easy identification and discussion by the author. These are not Mauser designations.

Series 3- Production Group -These numbers were used on the Swiss and P.08 standard production models. Since both models were produced concurrently for a time, there is no serial number break between the Models. This fact accounts for the inability of Mauser to identify the number of each model that was produced. The serial number series consists of six digits following the caliber prefix. It began with number one-thousand-one in each caliber. Thus; 10.001001, 10.001002, etc. and 11.001001, 11.001002, etc.
Ã¢?Â¦.
Series 6- Commemorative Series -In order to add to the uniqueness of each commemorative, these serial numbers denote each of the pistols as part of the limited series. For example, the number "~24 von 250" indicates that the pistol would be the twenty-fourth pistol of the two hundred fifty produced. The first commemorative, the Swiss, is 27 thus numbered 001 von 250, 002 von 250, etc. In order to differentiate later commemoratives, letters were added to the serial
number to indicate to which commemorative series a pistol belonged.
Thus; 001 von 250B is the first Bulgarian Commemorative, 001 von 250R is the first Russian Commemorative, KMO01 von 250 is the first Naval (Kaiserliche Marine) Commemorative and 001 von 250K is the first Carbine (Karabiner) Commemorative. <hr /></blockquote>and then

<blockquote>quote:<hr />In 1961 while doing research in Germany for the revised edition of his book "The Luger Pistol", Fred Datig visited the Mauser factory at Oberndorf, where he discussed the possibility of resuming production of the pistol. The managing director of Mauser-Werke informed him that any proposed plan of " ...retooling and producing... (a luger)... which would have to compete on today's market with less complicated and certainly less expensive pistols would warrant ...immediate rejection". Apparently the increasing value of the luger as a collectors' item, together with the previously-noted survey taken by Interarms, was sufficient to change the opinion of the Mauser management. Hindsight tells us that this was probably not a wise decision from a financial viewpoint; for even while the production of the P.08 Model was beginning, Mauser and Interarms were questioning the financial advisability of continuing large-scale production and advertised the P.08 Model as a limited production version. No exact figures have been released to indicate how limited the manufacturing run was, but regular production ceased in late 1975. At that time, approximately 30,000 pistols of the initial order for 100,000 had been delivered. In January, 1976, Interarms announced the cancellation of its initial contract with Mauser. It was finally admitted that the rising manufacturing costs, coupled with an increasingly unfavorable exchange rate between West Germany and the United States, had forced the pistol out of the competitive market.
It is highly unlikely that large-scale production of the Mauser Parabellum or any other luger pistol will ever be resumed. .The account of the production of the Mauser Parabellum probably provides the final chapter in the fascinating history of the luger pistol.<hr /></blockquote>I don't know if that helps?

Ed

mauro · 09-12-2003, 07:05 AM

Hello Doug,
the production date is stamped on the frame left side. Usually close to the Ulm acceptance mark there are two digit or two letter. If you have two digits, they represents the last two digits of the year, for example (73 for 1973). At a certain point of the production, Mauser started to use two characters instead of digits. In this case you have to apply the following rule: A=0, B=1, C=2 ..
For example HI, it means 78.

Let me know if this tip solves your problem.

Ciao

Lugerdoc · 09-12-2003, 08:40 AM

Lots of good info above. Your 9mm (11.0077xx) was the 67xxth Parabellum made in the standard series, which is about mid production, as the highest numbers that I've observed were in the 14000 range. I also have several new copies of F.Allen's "The Mauser Parabellum" available @$25 postpaid.TH

Steve Richards · 09-12-2003, 08:35 PM

Edward,

Yes I do have the book and found it to be very helpful. Now if I could only find the GUNFACTS magazine series that ran in late 1969 and early 1970.

Edward Tinker · 09-12-2003, 10:18 PM

Steve, you are slowly getting me excited over a "Mauser"

Ed

Steve Richards · 09-17-2003, 12:43 AM

Ed,

There are worse things to get excited about! My Swiss style is a very good looking pistol.

If you ever get down to the gunshow in Portland, drop me a line and maybe we could meet.

Steve

sharpsman2002 · 09-19-2003, 05:38 PM

Thanks for the info guys. Still a little confused about when my particular gun was made. Any thoughts? Doug

Edward Tinker · 09-19-2003, 06:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mauro:
the production date is stamped on the frame left side. Usually close to the Ulm acceptance mark there are two digit or two letter. If you have two digits, they represents the last two digits of the year, for example (73 for 1973). At a certain point of the production, Mauser started to use two characters instead of digits. In this case you have to apply the following rule: A=0, B=1, C=2 .. For example HI, it means 78.
<hr /></blockquote>Does yours have this same numbering on yours?

Ed

sharpsman2002 · 09-19-2003, 10:08 PM

I've looked everywhere--I'm positive I do not have the two digit or two letter code.

glenn s · 09-20-2003, 05:07 AM

Hello, Guys. My 7.65 6" model shows no letters on the left side either. It doesn't have parabellum on it . it onle has the interarms stamp on the right upper reciever, any help?

glenn s · 09-20-2003, 05:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by glenn s:
Hello, Guys. My 7.65 6" model shows no letters on the left side either. It doesn't have parabellum on it . it onle has the interarms stamp on the right upper reciever, any help?<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

mauro · 09-20-2003, 09:37 AM

Hello Guys,
I have attached two pictures related to the Mauser Parabellum marks. The first picture shows the two digits mark struck on a 29/70 model (72 for 1972). The second one shows the two letters mark (IG for 1986). In this case the pistol is a commemorative LP08.
Ciao

Edward Tinker · 09-20-2003, 12:32 PM

Doug and Glenn, sorry about the wild goose chase,

Ed

Lugerdoc · 09-21-2003, 10:07 AM

Doug, Your Parabellum probably has the Mauser FBM in house proofing. I quote form Francis Allan's "The Mauser Parabellum" page 22: Units destined for the US, which is not a memner of the International Proof Council, received the FBM Banner proof. This is the proof house of Mauser-Werke. --- All testing specificatons were the same for both proofing systems. Mauser simply used the FBM proof to avoid the government imposed fee that was required to be paid with each application of the Eagle/Nitro and Ulm system. TH

sharpsman2002 · 09-21-2003, 09:25 PM

You are correct Lugerdoc--mine does have the FBM stamp. Thanks for the info.

mauro · 09-22-2003, 04:52 AM

Very interesting. It seems that the Mauser Parabellum made to be exported in USA have a different mark configuration wrt the European one. Please post a picture where the proof marks for an "USA Parabellum" are visible.
I am quite sure that all Parabellum sold in Europe have the proof marks I have post before.
Thank you.
Ciao

Arminius · 05-12-2004, 03:41 PM

Thanks, Mauro, mine has "HG" besides the Stags antlers, I presume this means 76 made.

Thanks again, Hermann

mauro · 05-13-2004, 07:19 AM

Hello Arminius,
"A" means "0" so you are right. Your pistol was made in the 1976.
Ciao
Mauro

09-11-2003, 11:20 PM	#1
sharpsman2002 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Questions regarding my Interarms Luger--9mm Two questions: Serial # on my gun is 11.0077xx. When was this produced (don't have the test target which usually had date)? And, in the accessories box I have a brass cleaning rod (no brush) with oval loop. I've seen other Interarms Lugers (specifically in .30 caliber) that came with a wire wrapped cleaning rod with bristle brushes attached to the rod (perfectly round loop end). Which is correct? Did they provide two different brushes for .30 vs 9mm? Thanks, Doug

09-12-2003, 02:02 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Steve, do you happen to have "The Mauser Parabellum", by Francis Allan? It is on the newer guns, and is a good one. In it he states the following: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Serial Numbers With the exception of the "RG" and Commemoratives series, all serial numbers were prefixed by two numeric digits indicating the caliber of the pistol. Under this system, the number "1011 represents .30 cal Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), "11" represents 9mm Luger (9mm Parabellum), and "12" was reserved for .22 cal versions that were never built. All standard model pistols have the serial number stamped on the frame in the right trigger well and on the right side of the receiver fork above the ejector. The serial numbers of both the "RG" and Commemorative series appear in cartouche'. Most guns have the last three digits of the serial number roughly etched on the underside of the rear toggle-link. The series notations below are intended for easy identification and discussion by the author. These are not Mauser designations. Series 3- Production Group -These numbers were used on the Swiss and P.08 standard production models. Since both models were produced concurrently for a time, there is no serial number break between the Models. This fact accounts for the inability of Mauser to identify the number of each model that was produced. The serial number series consists of six digits following the caliber prefix. It began with number one-thousand-one in each caliber. Thus; 10.001001, 10.001002, etc. and 11.001001, 11.001002, etc. Ã¢?Â¦. Series 6- Commemorative Series -In order to add to the uniqueness of each commemorative, these serial numbers denote each of the pistols as part of the limited series. For example, the number "~24 von 250" indicates that the pistol would be the twenty-fourth pistol of the two hundred fifty produced. The first commemorative, the Swiss, is 27 thus numbered 001 von 250, 002 von 250, etc. In order to differentiate later commemoratives, letters were added to the serial number to indicate to which commemorative series a pistol belonged. Thus; 001 von 250B is the first Bulgarian Commemorative, 001 von 250R is the first Russian Commemorative, KMO01 von 250 is the first Naval (Kaiserliche Marine) Commemorative and 001 von 250K is the first Carbine (Karabiner) Commemorative. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">and then </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">In 1961 while doing research in Germany for the revised edition of his book "The Luger Pistol", Fred Datig visited the Mauser factory at Oberndorf, where he discussed the possibility of resuming production of the pistol. The managing director of Mauser-Werke informed him that any proposed plan of " ...retooling and producing... (a luger)... which would have to compete on today's market with less complicated and certainly less expensive pistols would warrant ...immediate rejection". Apparently the increasing value of the luger as a collectors' item, together with the previously-noted survey taken by Interarms, was sufficient to change the opinion of the Mauser management. Hindsight tells us that this was probably not a wise decision from a financial viewpoint; for even while the production of the P.08 Model was beginning, Mauser and Interarms were questioning the financial advisability of continuing large-scale production and advertised the P.08 Model as a limited production version. No exact figures have been released to indicate how limited the manufacturing run was, but regular production ceased in late 1975. At that time, approximately 30,000 pistols of the initial order for 100,000 had been delivered. In January, 1976, Interarms announced the cancellation of its initial contract with Mauser. It was finally admitted that the rising manufacturing costs, coupled with an increasingly unfavorable exchange rate between West Germany and the United States, had forced the pistol out of the competitive market. It is highly unlikely that large-scale production of the Mauser Parabellum or any other luger pistol will ever be resumed. .The account of the production of the Mauser Parabellum probably provides the final chapter in the fascinating history of the luger pistol.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I don't know if that helps? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-12-2003, 07:05 AM	#4
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Doug, the production date is stamped on the frame left side. Usually close to the Ulm acceptance mark there are two digit or two letter. If you have two digits, they represents the last two digits of the year, for example (73 for 1973). At a certain point of the production, Mauser started to use two characters instead of digits. In this case you have to apply the following rule: A=0, B=1, C=2 .. For example HI, it means 78. Let me know if this tip solves your problem. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-12-2003, 08:40 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Lots of good info above. Your 9mm (11.0077xx) was the 67xxth Parabellum made in the standard series, which is about mid production, as the highest numbers that I've observed were in the 14000 range. I also have several new copies of F.Allen's "The Mauser Parabellum" available @$25 postpaid.TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-12-2003, 10:18 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Steve, you are slowly getting me excited over a "Mauser" Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-12-2003, 01:22 AM	#2
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This may or may not help. Mine is 10.00.13XX and is dated Dec. 1970. I do not know how the numbers run when comparing .30's to 9mm. Steve

09-12-2003, 08:35 PM	#6
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Edward, Yes I do have the book and found it to be very helpful. Now if I could only find the GUNFACTS magazine series that ran in late 1969 and early 1970.

09-17-2003, 12:43 AM	#8
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, There are worse things to get excited about! My Swiss style is a very good looking pistol. If you ever get down to the gunshow in Portland, drop me a line and maybe we could meet. Steve

09-19-2003, 05:38 PM	#9
sharpsman2002 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info guys. Still a little confused about when my particular gun was made. Any thoughts? Doug

09-19-2003, 06:50 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by mauro: <strong>the production date is stamped on the frame left side. Usually close to the Ulm acceptance mark there are two digit or two letter. If you have two digits, they represents the last two digits of the year, for example (73 for 1973). At a certain point of the production, Mauser started to use two characters instead of digits. In this case you have to apply the following rule: A=0, B=1, C=2 .. For example HI, it means 78. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Does yours have this same numbering on yours? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-19-2003, 10:08 PM	#11
sharpsman2002 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've looked everywhere--I'm positive I do not have the two digit or two letter code.

09-20-2003, 05:07 AM	#12
glenn s User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello, Guys. My 7.65 6" model shows no letters on the left side either. It doesn't have parabellum on it . it onle has the interarms stamp on the right upper reciever, any help?

09-20-2003, 05:09 AM	#13
glenn s User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by glenn s: <strong>Hello, Guys. My 7.65 6" model shows no letters on the left side either. It doesn't have parabellum on it . it onle has the interarms stamp on the right upper reciever, any help?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

09-20-2003, 09:37 AM	#14
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Guys, I have attached two pictures related to the Mauser Parabellum marks. The first picture shows the two digits mark struck on a 29/70 model (72 for 1972). The second one shows the two letters mark (IG for 1986). In this case the pistol is a commemorative LP08. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

09-20-2003, 12:32 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Doug and Glenn, sorry about the wild goose chase, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-21-2003, 10:07 AM	#16
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Doug, Your Parabellum probably has the Mauser FBM in house proofing. I quote form Francis Allan's "The Mauser Parabellum" page 22: Units destined for the US, which is not a memner of the International Proof Council, received the FBM Banner proof. This is the proof house of Mauser-Werke. --- All testing specificatons were the same for both proofing systems. Mauser simply used the FBM proof to avoid the government imposed fee that was required to be paid with each application of the Eagle/Nitro and Ulm system. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-21-2003, 09:25 PM	#17
sharpsman2002 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You are correct Lugerdoc--mine does have the FBM stamp. Thanks for the info.

09-22-2003, 04:52 AM	#18
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Very interesting. It seems that the Mauser Parabellum made to be exported in USA have a different mark configuration wrt the European one. Please post a picture where the proof marks for an "USA Parabellum" are visible. I am quite sure that all Parabellum sold in Europe have the proof marks I have post before. Thank you. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

05-12-2004, 03:41 PM	#19
Arminius User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austria Posts: 48 Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks, Mauro, mine has "HG" besides the Stags antlers, I presume this means 76 made. Thanks again, Hermann

05-13-2004, 07:19 AM	#20
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Arminius, "A" means "0" so you are right. Your pistol was made in the 1976. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.