Mauser Hump revisited

[Thor]

This question comes up from time to time and is a key thing for new collectors to learn. Mauser Lugers have a hump or frame extension at the rear of the frame.
This was a frame extension at the rear of the frame just above the lanyard loop "staple". The purpose of extending the frame was better contain the rear toggle axle pin. In earlier DWM and Erfurt Lugers, if this pin was chipped or the frame stop at the front bottom of the receiver was worn the toggle/cannon assembly might move too far rearward during recoil and the pin could move sideways and jam the pistol. This design problem was fixed in another way with the Navy Luger pistol by changing the large end of this pin to a larger diameter better engaging the side of the frame ear at full recoil. Mauser begin extending their frames at the rear with a thickened back to better contain the pin. They later ground off the lower section back to the unextended length and this created double reverse curves that form the hump or bump. All 1937-1942 Mauser Lugers will have this hump, no 1936 or G dates have it and some K dates will have it and some will not. Shown below are two pictures that better illustrate this hump. One with the hump and one without it.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/WithHump.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/WithHump.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/WithoutHump.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/WithoutHump.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

[Frank]

One point of clarification: Almost all the 1937 Lugers that have the strawed small parts DO NOT have the Mauser Hump. The approximate serial number range is 4500p to 1500t, according to Jan Still's book "Third Reich Lugers". I think all the remaining 1937's, that are all blue have the "hump". There are some with strawed parts in the S-Block and T-Block that have the "hump", but they are fairly rare

[Navy]

Frank,

Your avitar has a strange likeness to the Democratic candidate's appearance. Separated at birth perhaps?

Tom A.

[Greg G]

My 1936 Mauser Banner Luger has the hump. I wonder if the commercials were treated differently from the military versions? Also, I have a 1937 S/42 in the "q" block with strawed small parts and it does not have the hump.

[Thor]

Greg G, looks like your 1937 S/42 follows the info that Frank quoted. It would be interesting to get a bit of info on Mauser Banners from Don Hallock as his collection of banners were shown in Third Reich Lugers. Thanks Frank, I stand corrected on the 1937s.

[Frank]

Tom A., what did I do to you to treat me like this?? While there may be some similarity, I am far better looking. And a lot more intelligent!!

My wife and children are also better looking than that other guy's!!

No more mister nice guy.

[Thor]

Thanks to Don Hallock for the following response about the Mauser Hump, specicially on Banner commercials. I got this info from him yesterday via email! Thanks DON!!!!

"These are my opinions
1. Collectors must totally understand that Mauser had two separate divisions. A. the Military production and B. the commercial production.

A. Military - WaA Inspectors were all over the place checking all the Luger parts for tolerances, etc. The rejected parts went to the commercial division. The evidence being found on the Banners with Military parts.

B. The commercial side had no WaA Inspectors. Look at it this way, once assembled it's fired three times they stamped a Crown U or Eagle N proof and shipped out.

History seems to point out that parts for 5000 pistols came from DWM (BKIW) to Mauser - Oberndorf in 1930. Lets proceed with that thought in mind.

7500U and beyond were most likely Mauser assembled from DWM parts. I feel this may be factual due to the grips. In the past, many collectors felt the sharp barrel band was Mauser. I don't think so. Research of late DWM barrels may lead one to believe this evidence was really a DWM tune up of the barrel machinery in the late 1920s prior to the sale to Mauser.

#1v - 399v These were the pistols that many identified as a 1920 commercials many years ago. You might mention 244v, If the owner of 244v happens to read your contribution to the Luger forum, he will have a great story to tell. 350v to 399v were the numbers of the peruvian contract. All with a DWM toggle

400v - 522v were all three line Stoegers. if the pistol was actually shipped to stoeger it will have the word "Genuine" on the right frame rail. If the pistol was never exported, there will be no "Genuine". Obviously the "Genuine" was installed in the US by Stoeger, note the aspect ratio. All with a DWM toggle

525v - 632v This range was a combination of Swiss and Stoeger Lugers. All with a DWM toggle.

637v - 1517v Most of these pistol were the "Oberndorf" pistols. Easy to recognize because of the high polish toggle train. All with DWM toggles.

1519v is the lowest numbered Banner that I have ever recorded. This pistol can be dated to 1935 because it has a few K-Date scriptic - S - parts. This pistol is also made up from a DWM frame because the frame is shaved and renumbered. No Mauser hump and no Mauser dimple on the stock lug.

Most K-Dates have the Mauser hump. I would suggest these pistols were Mauser manufacture. The no hump pistols may be old DWM frames. One needs to hunt for the Mauser dimple on the K-Dates without a hump, this certainly would be a useful research.

1534v This is the second lowest Banner serial number that I have recorded. This pistol is exactly the same as 1519v except it has no evidence of K-Date parts. Shaved receiver, no hump and no dimple.

1921v - 2541v Portuguese GNR contract. This may not be the exact serial number range of the contract, only the ones that I have recorded. Some collectors feel this is a duplicate serial range. This does not float in my data base because I'm yet to record a duplicate serial number in this range. Although these pistols had the Mauser Banner, it's my opinion these are still DWM frames. Serial number 2327v has a shaved receiver.

3001 - 3450v apparently went to Latvia.

3453 - 3591v are reported as Thailand pistols. I never had one to examine - maybe this can be an issue in your forum discussion, maybe we can get some in depth detail concerning the Mauser hump, dimple and toggle.

This information will more answer your question

4023v 1936 Banner This pistol has the Mauser hump, the frame is not shaved and has the Mauser dimple on the side of the stock lug.

3661v 1936 Banner this pistol is the same as 4023v. Hump, dimple and no shaved receiver.

5023v, 5024v and 5025v 1937 Banners. All the same, receivers not shaved, they have the Mauser hump and the stock lug dimple.

6392v 1937 Banner same as the others not shaved, Mauser hump and stock lug dimple,

2288 (no suffix) 1937 Dutch Banner same as the other 1937 dates, not shaved, hump and Mauser dimple.

1938 Banners and beyond are all the same and have the Mauser hump just like the Military pistols.

1938 - 1939 and 1940 Dutch are a new ball game. I have all of these pistols but could write a page on each.

I have the following and they all follow the commercial standards. 1938 Eagle K, 1939 Eagle K, F, C and L Also the hard one to find a 1939 Eagle F with a - v - suffix. 1939 commercial Banners in 9mm and 7.65. 1940 Commercial and Police Eagle C and L. Actually too many more to mention. If you want all the serial numbers, etc, I will mail the info.

As you can see the Commercial production did not follow in step with the Military. Re the hump on the 1936 and 1937 banners.

All numbered pistols are from my collection so there is no chance for error."

[Greg G]

Thor,
Thanks for getting the above information from Don Hallock. Looks like my 1936 Banner with serial number in the 4000 range in the "v" block, fits right in with the ones mentioned.

[Silvereagle29]

Frank
You could expand your 1937 Straw parts serial range to 380p - 6033t. However This is a transition period between straw and blue small parts Lugers. The entire p, q, r, and low end of the - t - block are a combination of straw and blue Lugers. It would be very difficult to estimate the number of each. I have never found a blue pistol with no hump, but have seen a few rare straw 1937 pistols with the mauser hump. Very nice additional to any collection.

[Frank]

Don, thanks for the additional information. I too have not seen an an all blue 1937 without a Mauser Hump!!

[Dwight Gruber]

The thing to take note of here is not whether or not a particular pistol has the 'hump', but the thickness of the rear of a no-hump frame. A Mauser frame designed to add rear toggle pin security will be thicker than a DWM frame, by the thickness of the 'hump'.

--Dwight

[Navy]

Frank,

I completely agree. You are far better looking than the poodle. I, likewise, have no doubt that your children are prettier and smarter. And as far as your spousal unit, well, I somehow doubt she is of the billionairess-I-inhereited-it like Tur-Rez-Uh, but a guy with your looks doesn't need to marry money.

With your charisma, you shudda' been a rock star!

Tom A.

[ToggleTop]

All,

I was just wondering is there any difference in performance of a luger if you cross frames between a Mauser no hump and regular DWM frame? As Dwight stated the Mauser no hump frame is thicker than the DWM frame. Any educated thoughts on this?

I have always pondered why Mauser continued with the Mauser hump instead of the no hump since there seems to be less machining when making the no hump frame.

Happy Hour is when I get a new Luger.

[unspellable]

The Swiss Lugers have a wider flange on the rear pin to prevent it from working out. Seems like a simpler solution than modifying the frame. I notice that the Mauser re-intros have the Swiss style rear pin.

[John Sabato]

There might be additional machining required, but for military guns, the introduction and sustaining of an addtional type of gun part into the inventory systems would be more costly than one additional machining operation at the time for manufacture.

The NEW Mausers don't have to compete with existing Lugers... they are commemoratives and the types of parts they use could be unique to themselves and not have to worry about interchangeeability between them and wartime models.

[Dwight Gruber]

Remember that the Mauser Parabellums were manufactured using the Bern tooling.

--Dwight

[unspellable]

As I have the story, the rumour that the Mauser re-intros were manufactured on the Bern tooling is not really true. Mauser did buy the tooling, but found most of it to be unusable and for the most part made up new tooling for the re-intro line.

[A.Mifsin]

I have a K date with the hump, but the G date I have is without the hump but with a thickened back.
And what is the Mauser dimple please?

[jamese]

The "dimple" is a little dent or dimple on the inside of the rail of the stock lug near the top

I'll find a photo and add to posting if you need it

[A.Mifsin]

Hi Jamese,
Thanks, I would like to see a photo
Thanks in advance.