New to me 1904 Navy

Portland Luger · 05-23-2012, 02:34 PM

Just bought my first few Lugers, and am interested in learning more about them. I read John Walter's book, which helped, but can't narrow down the date of manufacture or deployment of my 1904 Navy. Can anyone help? It is serial number 2509 a, has no date stamp on the top of receiver, and three marks (German Navy?) on the left side of the receiver. Any info or insight would be appreciated by this Luger newbee.

sheepherder · 05-23-2012, 02:40 PM

Welcome! We need pictures! Here's a link to a quick & dirty tut on attaching pics -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23172

Max size of pics is ~1100 x 1100; take full side views, closeups of all markings; rear sight markings; serial #; barrel numbers; any other markings/numbers...

The resident Navy experts will be along shortly...

alanint · 05-23-2012, 02:41 PM

Welcome to the forum! I suggest you re post your inquiry in the "Navy Luger" section and take a minute to review the "Sticky" at the top of the navy Luger section, which will help in answering a number of your questions.

Portland Luger · 05-23-2012, 02:54 PM

Thanks, will do when done traveling today.

Norme · 05-23-2012, 03:32 PM

Hi Tim, Since your Navy has an undated chamber, and based on the serial number, I'm assuming that it has a grip safety and it's what collectors call a 1906 model. I could tell more with photos, particularly grip strap markings (if any), the magazine base, the barrel serial number, and also the thumb safety in the up position. Regards, Norm

Portland Luger · 05-25-2012, 07:21 PM

This is Portland Luger attempting to share some pictures of my newly acquired Luger. Please let me know if the pictures come through. Would appreciate any information regarding year of manufacture and where it may have gotten deployed.

Portland Luger · 05-25-2012, 07:26 PM

Bear with me - I'm not only new to Lugers but I'm new to forums as well.

Norme · 05-25-2012, 07:33 PM

Hi Tim, As I suspected, your Gun is a 1906 Navy, what collectors call a 1st Altered, because the safety has been altered to be safe in the down position. The unit mark on the rear grip strap stands for 1st See Battalion, Weapon #76. This is a rare and desirable unit mark. We would love to see more photos of the gun and magazine so that we can assess condition. Regards, Norm

Portland Luger · 05-26-2012, 12:46 PM

Thanks for the feedback, Norm. I'll take and send some more pictures. Can you tell me what the marks on the side of the chamber refer to?
Tim

Norme · 05-26-2012, 03:47 PM

Hi Tim, Reading from the left, the receiver marks are: 1/ Pentagon shaped crown, this shows that the pistol has passed a proof test. This same mark should be on the left of the barrel and on the top right corner of the left side of the breech-block. 2 & 3/ Three lobed crown over M. These are Naval inspection marks and there should be another of these beneath the barrel, above the serial number. Your gun is one of the last to have the three lobed crown/M mark. It was replaced by a pentagon crown/M at about serial #3500a. Regards, Norm

alanint · 05-26-2012, 05:59 PM

I also see stamped symbols further up the barrel in your photo. Please include these when submitting more photos.

Thanks and welcome!

sheepherder · 05-26-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I also see stamped symbols further up the barrel in your photo.

Doug - That also looks like the pentagonal shaped crown proof...Just not as deeply stamped (or because it's a curved surface)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

...because the safety has been altered to be safe in the down position...

Then shouldn't there be a scrubbed surface under where the lever is in the pic??? (Hint - pic, please!)

(Where the original 'Gesichert' would have been...It should be unblued, too; correct???)

Portland Luger · 05-26-2012, 07:57 PM

Attached are some general pictures and a picture of the magazine bottom. I appreciate all the information so far.
Tim

sheepherder · 05-26-2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portland Luger

Attached are some general pictures and a picture of the magazine bottom. I appreciate all the information so far.
Tim

Very nice looking Navy!

How about a close-up of the safety in the up position???

alanint · 05-26-2012, 08:18 PM

It is a nice WW1 magazine but not correct for the Navy.

Norme · 05-26-2012, 10:43 PM

Hi Tim, I'd like to see a clear photo of the barrel serial number and the receiver frame rails when you're able to remove the top half of the pistol. The gun itself looks very nice, but my concerns are that the grips look more worn than the metal (a red flag), and also that the sear bar appears to be blued in your photo (a black flag !), although that could be dried grease. I think I see a Crown/M on the magazine base, if so then it is a Navy mag that was renumbered Army style. Anyway, keep those photos coming! Regards, Norm

lugersrkewl · 05-26-2012, 11:44 PM

Beautiful pic's thanks for posting and congratulations

Portland Luger · 06-01-2012, 10:25 AM

Regarding red flags that the grips appear more worn than the bluing, attached is a picture that better shows the overall condition of the 1904. I'll take safety pictures and barrel S# picutures soon.
Thanks again for the feedback and insight.
Tim

sheepherder · 06-01-2012, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portland Luger

...attached is a picture that better shows the overall condition of the 1904...

...It would, if the Cabelas advertising didn't cover the triggers & guards...

That is so sad...

alanint · 06-01-2012, 12:34 PM

I would still like to see that marking on the underside of the barrel. Not the typical ones near the chamber, but what is stamped above these.

05-23-2012, 02:34 PM	#1
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	New to me 1904 Navy Just bought my first few Lugers, and am interested in learning more about them. I read John Walter's book, which helped, but can't narrow down the date of manufacture or deployment of my 1904 Navy. Can anyone help? It is serial number 2509 a, has no date stamp on the top of receiver, and three marks (German Navy?) on the left side of the receiver. Any info or insight would be appreciated by this Luger newbee.

05-23-2012, 02:40 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Welcome! We need pictures! Here's a link to a quick & dirty tut on attaching pics - http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23172 Max size of pics is ~1100 x 1100; take full side views, closeups of all markings; rear sight markings; serial #; barrel numbers; any other markings/numbers... The resident Navy experts will be along shortly... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-25-2012, 07:21 PM	#6
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	1904 Luger Pictures This is Portland Luger attempting to share some pictures of my newly acquired Luger. Please let me know if the pictures come through. Would appreciate any information regarding year of manufacture and where it may have gotten deployed. Attached Thumbnails

05-26-2012, 12:46 PM	#9
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	1904 Navy Thanks for the feedback, Norm. I'll take and send some more pictures. Can you tell me what the marks on the side of the chamber refer to? Tim

05-26-2012, 07:57 PM	#13
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	A few more general pictures, and magazine Attached are some general pictures and a picture of the magazine bottom. I appreciate all the information so far. Tim Attached Thumbnails

05-23-2012, 02:41 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Welcome to the forum! I suggest you re post your inquiry in the "Navy Luger" section and take a minute to review the "Sticky" at the top of the navy Luger section, which will help in answering a number of your questions.

05-23-2012, 02:54 PM	#4
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Thanks, will do when done traveling today.

05-23-2012, 03:32 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi Tim, Since your Navy has an undated chamber, and based on the serial number, I'm assuming that it has a grip safety and it's what collectors call a 1906 model. I could tell more with photos, particularly grip strap markings (if any), the magazine base, the barrel serial number, and also the thumb safety in the up position. Regards, Norm

05-25-2012, 07:26 PM	#7
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	One more 1904 Picture Bear with me - I'm not only new to Lugers but I'm new to forums as well. Attached Thumbnails

05-25-2012, 07:33 PM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi Tim, As I suspected, your Gun is a 1906 Navy, what collectors call a 1st Altered, because the safety has been altered to be safe in the down position. The unit mark on the rear grip strap stands for 1st See Battalion, Weapon #76. This is a rare and desirable unit mark. We would love to see more photos of the gun and magazine so that we can assess condition. Regards, Norm

05-26-2012, 03:47 PM	#10
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi Tim, Reading from the left, the receiver marks are: 1/ Pentagon shaped crown, this shows that the pistol has passed a proof test. This same mark should be on the left of the barrel and on the top right corner of the left side of the breech-block. 2 & 3/ Three lobed crown over M. These are Naval inspection marks and there should be another of these beneath the barrel, above the serial number. Your gun is one of the last to have the three lobed crown/M mark. It was replaced by a pentagon crown/M at about serial #3500a. Regards, Norm

05-26-2012, 05:59 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I also see stamped symbols further up the barrel in your photo. Please include these when submitting more photos. Thanks and welcome!

05-26-2012, 08:18 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It is a nice WW1 magazine but not correct for the Navy.

05-26-2012, 10:43 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,415 Thanks: 225 Thanked 2,594 Times in 931 Posts	Hi Tim, I'd like to see a clear photo of the barrel serial number and the receiver frame rails when you're able to remove the top half of the pistol. The gun itself looks very nice, but my concerns are that the grips look more worn than the metal (a red flag), and also that the sear bar appears to be blued in your photo (a black flag !), although that could be dried grease. I think I see a Crown/M on the magazine base, if so then it is a Navy mag that was renumbered Army style. Anyway, keep those photos coming! Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

05-26-2012, 11:44 PM	#17
lugersrkewl Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ussr Posts: 425 Thanks: 198 Thanked 75 Times in 58 Posts	Beautiful pic's thanks for posting and congratulations

06-01-2012, 10:25 AM	#18
Portland Luger User Join Date: May 2012 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	1904 Navy Better Picture Regarding red flags that the grips appear more worn than the bluing, attached is a picture that better shows the overall condition of the 1904. I'll take safety pictures and barrel S# picutures soon. Thanks again for the feedback and insight. Tim Attached Thumbnails

06-01-2012, 12:34 PM	#20
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I would still like to see that marking on the underside of the barrel. Not the typical ones near the chamber, but what is stamped above these.