FOUND!-Kreighoff # 1002

John Sabato · 08-13-2003, 05:30 PM

<img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> Sorry John D. --- I just couldn't resist! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

John D. · 08-13-2003, 07:16 PM

Oh sheeessshhhh...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

And to think - you're an ADMIN... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

Jeff Noll · 08-17-2003, 11:00 PM

John, This will be a good test piece. Sell it and we will wait and see how long it takes for this pistol to recycle, be "reworked" and offered as an mint original. This actually happened to a friends Kreighoff. He sold it to a "respectable" dealer at our old Great Western Gun Show. The pistol was decent but had some problems. Lo and behold, several months later it was back in MINT original condition. Sad thing it is in someone's collection and they probably do not have a clue. Jeff

Pete Ebbink · 08-17-2003, 11:05 PM

Jeff,

Why not post the gun's serial number?...so folks tracking numbers and condition can record this piece...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

ViggoG · 08-18-2003, 02:13 AM

John S,

How's The Bore ?
<img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

ViggoG <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

josef · 08-18-2003, 09:32 AM

Uh, yeah, that's right, it's a Kreighoff for sure! I can tell how jealous you guys are! By the way, I'm open to offers! Better than a vet bringback, this one came from the original source!! LOL!! <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

Stevie · 08-18-2003, 07:49 PM

She's got some minor "bloodpitting", and the sideplate is pretty worn. Jokes aside, I would be cautios, it may be loaded, and the indicator/extractor rotted off. Has the grips, frame and all been sawed in two?

Still cool, Stevie

josef · 08-18-2003, 08:58 PM

Nope, she is just as I found her. It's okay though, when I framed it I made sure I pointed the barrel to the side I never stand at. Seriously, Customs held it for a couple days and their "expert" cleared it. Good point though. <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

Ronald Welch · 08-18-2003, 11:12 PM

Hi John
Hows she shoot, bet you need a little wd40 and it won't jam.
Ron

John F. · 08-19-2003, 01:38 AM

Out of curiosity, where did this one come from?
Any history behind it?
John

josef · 08-19-2003, 09:37 AM

I found it in a lake in the Czech Republic that the locals were draining several years ago. Adjacent to the lake there is a large field, and at the war's end the German forces were instructed to gather in this field and await orders to surrender to Soviet forces. Alot of equipment and such were dumped into the water that Spring. I have found other than this Luger a P38 and an Ortiges slide, numerous decorations, ect. Like I said, the Luger and P38 are not pretty, but they are perfect for display and no doubt "unmessed with". Can't get over how the handles have preserved so nicely.

Lugerdoc · 08-19-2003, 11:05 AM

Josef, I've also heard stories from Czechs and residents of other Nazi occupied lands, that when there occupiers issued the death penalty for anyone found with a firearm, that many of them ended up in nearby lakes. TH

John Sabato · 08-19-2003, 12:05 PM

Has anyone noticed that this gun has a hole drilled in the center of the takedown lever?

Is that typical of any particular model? or year of production?

Dwight Gruber · 08-19-2003, 12:35 PM

John,

Since the takedown lever is hollow behind the knurled part, I'd guess that the face of it has just rusted away.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 08-19-2003, 12:51 PM

Dwight,

That is possible, but I have seen other Lugers in my time (too long to describe) that had takedown levers that had a drilled hole where this one is... I just never thought to ask before...

josef · 08-19-2003, 10:54 PM

Here is a couple more closeups of the P08, the hole in the takedown lever does not look like rust. TH you are correct, it was an automatic death sentence to be caught with a firearm. My great uncle escaped on 9 May from the town jail only becausew of a Soviet air bombardment. He had been randomly searched and was found with a small revolver.

(post edited by Admin-JS to display photos rather than just the URL)

Vlim · 08-20-2003, 10:53 AM

Hi,

Could this modification have something to do with extreme weather conditions. A hole in the takedown lever would help you to take the gun apart in freezing conditions with similarly frozen fingers (or thick gloves)?

Ron Wood · 08-20-2003, 12:28 PM

That's an interesting thought. The nose of a rifle bullet could make a handy tool for frozen or gloved hands.

H.P.Langenbach · 08-20-2003, 02:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
John,

Since the takedown lever is hollow behind the knurled part, I'd guess that the face of it has just rusted away.

--Dwight<hr /></blockquote>Hi Dwight,
this was also my first idea, but then I referred to the drawings and I found that the inner dia is 7.8mm and the outer dia of the knurled part is 9.5mm, this comes to an wall thickness of .85mm.
In pics provided by josef the wall thickness looks much more.
So maybe it is really a special type of take down lever with a smaller hole drilled through the entire knurled knob.
regards
Peter

Vlim · 08-22-2003, 11:12 AM

Ron,

Thanks. I've seen some modifications before that were the result of harsh climate conditions. I remember there was a trigger adaptor for the K98 so it could be fired with gloved hands during extreme winter conditions.

I thought about 'hooking' the extractor tool behind an unmodified takedown lever as alternative, but that doesn't offer enough grip. A rifle bullet (or the tip of a cleaning rod?) does.

If there's any truth behind the theory, these modified takedown levers should be encountered on captured/non-reworked WWII eastern front lugers.

It would be nice to see a non-corroded modified lever, though.

08-13-2003, 05:30 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	FOUND!-Kreighoff # 1002 <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> Sorry John D. --- I just couldn't resist! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-19-2003, 01:38 AM	#10
John F. User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Out of curiosity, where did this one come from? Any history behind it? John __________________ John

08-19-2003, 11:05 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Josef, I've also heard stories from Czechs and residents of other Nazi occupied lands, that when there occupiers issued the death penalty for anyone found with a firearm, that many of them ended up in nearby lakes. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-19-2003, 12:05 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Has anyone noticed that this gun has a hole drilled in the center of the takedown lever? Is that typical of any particular model? or year of production? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-19-2003, 12:51 PM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Dwight, That is possible, but I have seen other Lugers in my time (too long to describe) that had takedown levers that had a drilled hole where this one is... I just never thought to ask before... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-13-2003, 07:16 PM	#2
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 477 Thanked 515 Times in 128 Posts	Oh sheeessshhhh...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> And to think - you're an ADMIN... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

08-17-2003, 11:00 PM	#3
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	John, This will be a good test piece. Sell it and we will wait and see how long it takes for this pistol to recycle, be "reworked" and offered as an mint original. This actually happened to a friends Kreighoff. He sold it to a "respectable" dealer at our old Great Western Gun Show. The pistol was decent but had some problems. Lo and behold, several months later it was back in MINT original condition. Sad thing it is in someone's collection and they probably do not have a clue. Jeff

08-17-2003, 11:05 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Jeff, Why not post the gun's serial number?...so folks tracking numbers and condition can record this piece... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-18-2003, 02:13 AM	#5
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John S, How's The Bore ? <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ViggoG <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

08-18-2003, 09:32 AM	#6
josef User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: CANADA Posts: 194 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Uh, yeah, that's right, it's a Kreighoff for sure! I can tell how jealous you guys are! By the way, I'm open to offers! Better than a vet bringback, this one came from the original source!! LOL!! <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

08-18-2003, 07:49 PM	#7
Stevie User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ok. Posts: 212 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	She's got some minor "bloodpitting", and the sideplate is pretty worn. Jokes aside, I would be cautios, it may be loaded, and the indicator/extractor rotted off. Has the grips, frame and all been sawed in two? Still cool, Stevie

08-18-2003, 08:58 PM	#8
josef User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: CANADA Posts: 194 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Nope, she is just as I found her. It's okay though, when I framed it I made sure I pointed the barrel to the side I never stand at. Seriously, Customs held it for a couple days and their "expert" cleared it. Good point though. <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

08-18-2003, 11:12 PM	#9
Ronald Welch User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Matthews,N.C. Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi John Hows she shoot, bet you need a little wd40 and it won't jam. Ron

08-19-2003, 09:37 AM	#11
josef User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: CANADA Posts: 194 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	I found it in a lake in the Czech Republic that the locals were draining several years ago. Adjacent to the lake there is a large field, and at the war's end the German forces were instructed to gather in this field and await orders to surrender to Soviet forces. Alot of equipment and such were dumped into the water that Spring. I have found other than this Luger a P38 and an Ortiges slide, numerous decorations, ect. Like I said, the Luger and P38 are not pretty, but they are perfect for display and no doubt "unmessed with". Can't get over how the handles have preserved so nicely.

08-19-2003, 12:35 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	John, Since the takedown lever is hollow behind the knurled part, I'd guess that the face of it has just rusted away. --Dwight

08-19-2003, 10:54 PM	#16
josef User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: CANADA Posts: 194 Thanks: 4 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Here is a couple more closeups of the P08, the hole in the takedown lever does not look like rust. TH you are correct, it was an automatic death sentence to be caught with a firearm. My great uncle escaped on 9 May from the town jail only becausew of a Soviet air bombardment. He had been randomly searched and was found with a small revolver. (post edited by Admin-JS to display photos rather than just the URL)

08-20-2003, 10:53 AM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, Could this modification have something to do with extreme weather conditions. A hole in the takedown lever would help you to take the gun apart in freezing conditions with similarly frozen fingers (or thick gloves)?

08-20-2003, 12:28 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	That's an interesting thought. The nose of a rifle bullet could make a handy tool for frozen or gloved hands. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-20-2003, 02:08 PM	#19
H.P.Langenbach User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dwight Gruber: <strong>John, Since the takedown lever is hollow behind the knurled part, I'd guess that the face of it has just rusted away. --Dwight</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi Dwight, this was also my first idea, but then I referred to the drawings and I found that the inner dia is 7.8mm and the outer dia of the knurled part is 9.5mm, this comes to an wall thickness of .85mm. In pics provided by josef the wall thickness looks much more. So maybe it is really a special type of take down lever with a smaller hole drilled through the entire knurled knob. regards Peter

08-22-2003, 11:12 AM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Ron, Thanks. I've seen some modifications before that were the result of harsh climate conditions. I remember there was a trigger adaptor for the K98 so it could be fired with gloved hands during extreme winter conditions. I thought about 'hooking' the extractor tool behind an unmodified takedown lever as alternative, but that doesn't offer enough grip. A rifle bullet (or the tip of a cleaning rod?) does. If there's any truth behind the theory, these modified takedown levers should be encountered on captured/non-reworked WWII eastern front lugers. It would be nice to see a non-corroded modified lever, though.