Is this DDR refurb but not VoPo issue

[www.prussia.us]

Hey Guys,

As my WTB post states, I can only afford one Luger; and I want it to be WW1 issue-dated, and have a 1920-Weimer restamp, (a Reichswehr grip regimental marking would be nice), and a DDR Suhl Eagle proof or an intact VoPo sunburst shield. Okay, I know they are out there but I have to be patient.

Question;
Is this luger a DDR rework:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=314518338

[Edward Tinker]

Do you mean that the 1920 as a gov't property stamping?

Your qualifications will be pretty hard to find. Lots with of WW1 that went to Weimar, then served in WW2 and into the East Germany, but finding one with sunburst shield will be hard to find / the Suhl eagle easier... just in my humble opinion

[www.prussia.us]

Yes sir I need a Luger with:

1) Chamber dates of WW1 AND the 1920
e.g. 1915/1920

2) AND a horizontal DDR Suhl eagle proof

3) other markings and East German mixed parts makes it
even more exciting, to Luger collectors they are ugly shooters, to me it is history, so if anyone has one they want to sell please PM me.

Now back to my question with the link, do you guys think it is GDR/DDR refurb? W/o a clear East German proof, I cannot bid anyway, but it has everything else.

[skeeter4206]

Look on Simpson ltd. They have a pretty big variety of lugers on there. I think I saw one earlier that actaully had the police star stamped on it somewhere and had some police unit markings. Either there or ebay. But I think its Simpson.

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally Posted by www.prussia.us

Yes sir I need a Luger with:

1) Chamber dates of WW1 AND the 1920
e.g. 1915/1920

2) AND a horizontal DDR Suhl eagle proof

3) other markings and East German mixed parts makes it
even more exciting, to Luger collectors they are ugly shooters, to me it is history, so if anyone has one they want to sell please PM me.

Now back to my question with the link, do you guys think it is GDR/DDR refurb? W/o a clear East German proof, I cannot bid anyway, but it has everything else.

This P08 has no characteristics which identify it as a Deutsche Volkspolizei pistol.

--Dwight

[Andyd]

It has been refinished in pretty much the same style like the Vopo 08s but misses the stamps to identify it as such. The absence of the Russian X but C.A.I. stamp makes me wonder if it is even a Russian captured gun, even though some of their x's were scratched or stenciled in hidden places, often the grips replaced with black bakelite grips with lines, not checkering.
The grips on that gun are aftermarket and "gesichert" is not really the maker...

[Vlim]

The fact that the frame is renumbered disqualifies it as a VoPo. It was probably assembled from the 'parts bin' of some importer or exporter.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Andyd

It has been refinished in pretty much the same style like the Vopo 08s ...

The grips on that gun are aftermarket and "gesichert" is not really the maker...

This pistol looks almost Parkerized in the pics. I think it has been cleaned up for refinish by being blasted with some medium or other. Is blasting the typical approach for VoPo refinish?

I've seen listings for Gesichert Lugers before--haven't paid enough attention to tell if it is the same, uninformed person or a series of them. I messaged one such lister last year, but don't know if my pedagogy had any effect. The lower the level of experience/knowledge of the lister, the more bizarre and entertaining the titles and descriptions! Somebody who lists in this manner seems unable or unwilling to crack Wikipedia, at the very least, to ensure their listing reaches the right buyers. I'm perversely amused by such displays of ignorance; even though they don't know the first thing about what they are selling, notice that their prices are usually right up there.

[www.prussia.us]

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

Look on Simpson ltd. They have a pretty big variety of lugers on there. I think I saw one earlier that actaully had the police star stamped on it somewhere and had some police unit markings. Either there or ebay. But I think its Simpson.

Thanks, I check in at Simpson often, though that is not the place to always get the best price, they only had 2 VoPo's neither close to what I am looking for, and both "on hold". However I appreciate the advice.

As to this one, in the link why I thought it may be an East German (DDR) refurb but not issued to VoPo b/c:

1) I have seen those what???, rosewood looking???, re-issued grips on East German lugers before (though they usually have the bulls-eye bakelite, but certainly not always) done by maybe Century or early-on in the DDR.

2) That serial re-numbering on the lower was obviously done with some machining not just some dingbat w/ an electro-pencil, most imports I have seen were just left mismached, it would take a real anal importer to deface (in some places crudely) the original numbers to match the new ones, except the sideplate of course, which was electro-penciled.

3) That mag could have the 2/1001 on it having that silver looking base.

4) Just given the vast variation of E. German reworking, I figured maybe it was redone in the DDR, shipped to another Warsaw Pact nation, until Century found it after 1991.

5) As for the Russian "X" mark sometimes these were placed on the mag bottom, so if the mag base were replaced after the war, so goes the "X"

Now, though I have been watching DDR lugers for years, you guys are the experts,,,,,so fire away at my ideas, I have thick skin

[Vlim]

1) Most DDR lugers received bakelite grips with the bullseye logo. Som retained their original grips. I never saw 'DDR reproduced' wooden grips on a VoPo.

2) All you need is a $10 punch set and a hammer.

3) Can only be determined by looking at the magazine. Magazines can easily be switched/force matched.

4) Most unlikely. VoPo's started coming on the the US market in the late 1970s already.

5) See 3.

[Andyd]

www.prussia.us,

regarding point 4), the GDR did not send their P.08s to other nations, the Volkspolizei gave them to the worker's brigades when they replaced them. Guns were also bought from Hungary and Russia to fill the niche at a later time.

The ones sold as the first lot to the U.S. had the star defaced. The lot that later made it through Frankonia have their import mark and the sunburst star intact.

Ithacaartist might be right, the finish does look sandblasted and as it was pointed out by Vlim, the Vopos restamped the upper on my Vopo 08 and the others I have seen. I have not seen a Vopo frame restamped but that is no conclusive proof, only yet another warning flag on that fishy gun.

[www.prussia.us]

Well I THANK ALL FOR YOU for your sage advice, Luger collectors have a very unique tome of knowledge compared to other military surplus guns, I am pretty good with Mausers 98s but I am way out of my ointment with this stuff, so I greatly appreciate this site, and your help.

It is still a neat Luger b/c of the regimental marking and double date, a cool shooter for sure, but I will keep my powder dry on this one and wait for the one I am looking for

Again please feel free to PM me if any of you see one for sale.

THANKS