DWM 1906 Dutch spotted

George Anderson · 09-13-2003, 08:20 PM

I was travelling through western Pa yesterday and had opportunity to stop at a rather large gun shop. They had a beautiful 1906 DWM Dutch, M11, for sale with holster and double mag pouch. Total of two magazines, which I believe are Dutch, a Dutch pin punch, takedown/loading tool and an M11 type cleaning rod.

As I post this, bear in mind I am using Martens and de Vries as a reference 'cause I don't know squat about Dutch Lugers. The mag pouch is what the above authors call an M11 pictured on 213 in "The Dutch Luger" and the holster is as pictured on page 216 of the same book.

The serial number was 12584 and seemed to match throughout. The brass property plate was marked M.L.Kdj. over 40. The tool was marked ES over 637 and the holster was marked CW over N over 12 23 over AB. There was a similar marking on the mag pouch but I couldn't make it out in the poor light.

The pistol was in pristine condition so I assume it was professionally restored. Top notch job! The pistol was listed at $2950 and the clerk said the owner of the shop might deal.

Should anyone be interested, let me know and I will email store name an phone number.

Ron Wood · 09-13-2003, 09:04 PM

A serial number of 12548 would make it a KOL marked Dutch delivered in 1928. Sounds like a good rig.

Vlim · 09-16-2003, 04:20 PM

The tool originated from the
Subsistence Officers in Bandung. (SE)
The Holster has the mark of the makers, the Construction Winkel (newly made in december 1923).

The gun indeed comes from the KOL series and should have the KOL logo on the receiver.

The marking on the brass sideplate puzzles me, it could be the marking of a newly formed (post 1945) mobile infantry group. Can't find the exact description in my docs.

The combination of items and the state of the gun could point to a refurbished/reissued 1945 - 1950 period gun. This would also explain the excellent condition, found on most 45-50 issued guns, since these barely left the armouries (no ammo

.

It might well be a 'set' made up by a collector, but I doubt that.

Vlim · 09-28-2003, 07:56 AM

For completeness sake,

The M.L.K dj. inscription kinda puzzled me since it's not documented in the official list as published in Martens and De Vries 'Dutch Luger'.

But then again, many local arsenals didn't follow the rules as well as they should have when it came to inscribing the plates (low priority in a difficult time). The standards were revised just before WWII and organisation was gone from 1939 - 1945. In the period from 1945 - 1950, the Dutch were active in the east-indies in a time that became known as the 'police actions', a last attempt to win back territory and stop indonesian independance.

dj most likely represents the location (Djambi), a harbour town at the sumatran east coast (present day indonesia). Djambi was a garrison town that also had an airfield and had oil fields nearby, making it a place of strategic importance.

My current conclusion is that the MLK dj text stands for 'Militaire Luchtvaart KNIL Djambi'.
(military airforce Dutch east indies army).

The airport 'Paal Merah' in Jambi still exists today.

Vlim · 09-28-2003, 08:39 AM

Further documentation support this:

In Martens & De Vries the 'L.A.' or Luchtvaartafdeling is mentioned and normally this text will be found on guns that were in use by the airforce part of the KNIL.

At march 30, 1939, however, the L.A. was changed into the 'Militare Luchtvaart / KNIL'. (ML/K).

Edward Tinker · 09-28-2003, 09:24 PM

Thanks Gerben!

Love the Dutch Guns

Vlim · 09-29-2003, 08:57 AM

I agree, the documentation levels are simply incredible. If one would take his time, it would be possible to get the names of the KNIL gun owners/users for a particular gun!

09-13-2003, 08:20 PM	#1
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	DWM 1906 Dutch spotted I was travelling through western Pa yesterday and had opportunity to stop at a rather large gun shop. They had a beautiful 1906 DWM Dutch, M11, for sale with holster and double mag pouch. Total of two magazines, which I believe are Dutch, a Dutch pin punch, takedown/loading tool and an M11 type cleaning rod. As I post this, bear in mind I am using Martens and de Vries as a reference 'cause I don't know squat about Dutch Lugers. The mag pouch is what the above authors call an M11 pictured on 213 in "The Dutch Luger" and the holster is as pictured on page 216 of the same book. The serial number was 12584 and seemed to match throughout. The brass property plate was marked M.L.Kdj. over 40. The tool was marked ES over 637 and the holster was marked CW over N over 12 23 over AB. There was a similar marking on the mag pouch but I couldn't make it out in the poor light. The pistol was in pristine condition so I assume it was professionally restored. Top notch job! The pistol was listed at $2950 and the clerk said the owner of the shop might deal. Should anyone be interested, let me know and I will email store name an phone number.

09-13-2003, 09:04 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	A serial number of 12548 would make it a KOL marked Dutch delivered in 1928. Sounds like a good rig. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-28-2003, 09:24 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Thanks Gerben! Love the Dutch Guns __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-16-2003, 04:20 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	The tool originated from the Subsistence Officers in Bandung. (SE) The Holster has the mark of the makers, the Construction Winkel (newly made in december 1923). The gun indeed comes from the KOL series and should have the KOL logo on the receiver. The marking on the brass sideplate puzzles me, it could be the marking of a newly formed (post 1945) mobile infantry group. Can't find the exact description in my docs. The combination of items and the state of the gun could point to a refurbished/reissued 1945 - 1950 period gun. This would also explain the excellent condition, found on most 45-50 issued guns, since these barely left the armouries (no ammo . It might well be a 'set' made up by a collector, but I doubt that.

09-28-2003, 07:56 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	For completeness sake, The M.L.K dj. inscription kinda puzzled me since it's not documented in the official list as published in Martens and De Vries 'Dutch Luger'. But then again, many local arsenals didn't follow the rules as well as they should have when it came to inscribing the plates (low priority in a difficult time). The standards were revised just before WWII and organisation was gone from 1939 - 1945. In the period from 1945 - 1950, the Dutch were active in the east-indies in a time that became known as the 'police actions', a last attempt to win back territory and stop indonesian independance. dj most likely represents the location (Djambi), a harbour town at the sumatran east coast (present day indonesia). Djambi was a garrison town that also had an airfield and had oil fields nearby, making it a place of strategic importance. My current conclusion is that the MLK dj text stands for 'Militaire Luchtvaart KNIL Djambi'. (military airforce Dutch east indies army). The airport 'Paal Merah' in Jambi still exists today.

09-28-2003, 08:39 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	Further documentation support this: In Martens & De Vries the 'L.A.' or Luchtvaartafdeling is mentioned and normally this text will be found on guns that were in use by the airforce part of the KNIL. At march 30, 1939, however, the L.A. was changed into the 'Militare Luchtvaart / KNIL'. (ML/K).

09-29-2003, 08:57 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,047 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,947 Times in 1,198 Posts	I agree, the documentation levels are simply incredible. If one would take his time, it would be possible to get the names of the KNIL gun owners/users for a particular gun!