1900 AE-22

wlyon · 01-18-2008, 01:04 PM

Had this on Jan's a few years ago.

I picked this up in an Idaho pawn shop many years ago. A 1900 AE serial #10317. It has been converted to a 22 rim fire. The barrel was cut off forward of the serial number and a 22 barrel pinned into the receiver. The recoil spring was changed to a coil type. The original firing pin was converted to a rim fire. The rear toggle was cut down to reduce weight. An adjustable rear sight was added. The mag is an original wood bottom lined with a 22 mag (Erma?). All the numbers match. It must have been a fairly nice 1900 AE. Interesting piece anyway. Good gunsmithing and functions very well with hi-velocity 22's.

John Sabato · 01-18-2008, 02:42 PM

Bill, those were the days when the title "Gunsmith" really meant GUNSMITH and the associated blacksmith and engineering skills were really envied. An age gone by... I worked with just such a gunsmith in my younger days back in the late '60s and early '70s... I learned more from him in two years than I could have learned in any tech school program..

By Today's standards, people who can afford the license and can mount scope sights using screwdrivers and ready-made mounts, and change parts they have ordered from catalogs use the same "title"... it just doesn't mean as much.

A really nice conversion IMHO... Has the ejector been modified to work with the conversion or is it standard?

thanks for sharing the details with the forum.

StarOfTheWest · 01-18-2008, 04:16 PM

What an intriguing conversion!
Very creative work by the gunsmith, for sure.
I like it, and I bet it works a lot better than those post war Erma 22s.

Thanks for sharing it.

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2008, 04:44 PM

Bill, I bought this off of gunboards a year or so ago, not sure what I'll do with ti, but figured what the heck.

It is a 22 conversion for a toggle, from a P08 toggle. I would much rather have a complete one like you

very nice.

Ed

John Sabato · 01-18-2008, 04:58 PM

Hey Ed,

how about some photos of the breechbolt from different angles.. and is the toggle conversion complete? Does it work with the original ejector? This type of work really interests me.

wlyon · 01-18-2008, 06:59 PM

Rick If you would like any other views let me know.

John: Will check the ejector tonight.

Ed; Interesting part

Anna Thank you Keep those pictures coming.

Bill

wlyon · 01-18-2008, 10:01 PM

John The ejector has had the arm ? extended. Bill;

Ron Wood · 01-19-2008, 12:45 AM

Ejector or extractor?

wlyon · 01-19-2008, 01:04 AM

Ron & John- The ejector arm(?) has been lengthened and a deeper groove cut in the breech block. See pictures. Included is a picture of the barrel pin. The extractor has been reworked - lowered to pick up a 22 case?

Ron Wood · 01-19-2008, 02:05 AM

That really is a marvelous piece of work! I thought it would be a straight blow-back action like the .22 kits, but I see that it appears to be a short recoil and the frame ramps have been built up to break the toggle quicker. The more I look at these pictures the more I admire the skill of the craftsman that made it. The breechblock is a work of art. Now that I have looked a little closer, I can see that the extractor channel has been made deeper so that the extractor can reach down and capture the .22 rim. I would like a pic of the top of the breechblock and a shot or two of the back of the toggle and the rear sight setup. That is one neat little puppy!

wlyon · 01-19-2008, 02:50 AM

Ron;
Will send some tomarrow. I am computer stupid and my computer programmer wife has gone to bed. Bill

wlyon · 01-19-2008, 01:22 PM

Ron - Here are a few more pictures. The rear sight is dovetailed in and is adjustable for windage and elevation. I edited the post above your last one and included some pictures. I think we must have put them on together. The rear toggle was drilled through four times, a couple of them filled again. If you need any others or better shots, just ask. When I bought this ($160), I tried to find out who had done the work. They could only tell me an older man who worked on guns for a hobby.

George Anderson · 01-19-2008, 03:25 PM

A really cool piece. Great part of a Luger collection.

Ron Wood · 01-19-2008, 04:36 PM

Thanks a ton Bill! You really got your $160 worth! From the top view of the breechblock I can see that the old gentleman replaced the 1900 one piece extractor with an adaptation of the new model pivoted extractor with a separate small spring. The gun is a fantastic modification and a delight to see. I really appreciate the photos.

lfid · 01-20-2008, 02:02 AM

Bill

super interesting conversion

thanks !!! for sharing the photos and details

does the rear of the barrel extension have the rear toggle axle relocated lower than original ?

appears overall this now operates as a blowback - will the breechblock and toggle open up before the rear toggle ears touch the frame ramps ?

thanks
Bill

wlyon · 01-20-2008, 12:08 PM

Bill
Will try and answer your questions later today. I expect Ron Wood can answer your questions from the photos. Bill

wlyon · 01-20-2008, 04:36 PM

Bill
The rear toggle connecting pin has been worked on. I have nothing to compare the location to. The pin is smaller than the rest of my lugers but I do not have another 1900. The breech block and toggle do not open before the rear toggle touches the frame ramps. Hope I have answered your question. Maybe John S and/or Ron W will jump in here. Thanks for your interest. Bill

Ron Wood · 01-23-2008, 02:48 PM

Looking at the photo of the rear of the receiver, it does not appear that the rear toggle axle pin has been lowered. The connecting link however has been extensively modified. The pivot point on the toggle for the link has been moved far forward to right behind the toggle knobs and the link itself has been made longer. The pivot point between the rear and forward toggle links has also been raised. The gunsmith has completely changed the geometry of the toggle train to accommodate the .22 round. Again, I am impressed with the ingenuity of his modifications.

John Sabato · 02-02-2008, 10:03 PM

This was a great educational engineering thread... I am starting a new thread that will provide a photo essay of the attempted .22 conversion of a standard Luger upper that was shown by Ed Tinker above...

The new thread subject will be "Modification of a Standard Upper to .22"

The thread will be located under the Post WW-II Lugers Discussion Forum.

kurusu · 10-31-2014, 05:03 AM

Wondeful work.

This thread should not be lost in time.

01-18-2008, 02:42 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Bill, those were the days when the title "Gunsmith" really meant GUNSMITH and the associated blacksmith and engineering skills were really envied. An age gone by... I worked with just such a gunsmith in my younger days back in the late '60s and early '70s... I learned more from him in two years than I could have learned in any tech school program.. By Today's standards, people who can afford the license and can mount scope sights using screwdrivers and ready-made mounts, and change parts they have ordered from catalogs use the same "title"... it just doesn't mean as much. A really nice conversion IMHO... Has the ejector been modified to work with the conversion or is it standard? thanks for sharing the details with the forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-18-2008, 04:16 PM	#3
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	What an intriguing conversion! Very creative work by the gunsmith, for sure. I like it, and I bet it works a lot better than those post war Erma 22s. Thanks for sharing it. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-18-2008, 04:44 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	Bill, I bought this off of gunboards a year or so ago, not sure what I'll do with ti, but figured what the heck. It is a 22 conversion for a toggle, from a P08 toggle. I would much rather have a complete one like you very nice. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-18-2008, 04:58 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Hey Ed, how about some photos of the breechbolt from different angles.. and is the toggle conversion complete? Does it work with the original ejector? This type of work really interests me. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-18-2008, 06:59 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Rick If you would like any other views let me know. John: Will check the ejector tonight. Ed; Interesting part Anna Thank you Keep those pictures coming. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-18-2008, 01:04 PM	#1
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	1900 AE-22 Had this on Jan's a few years ago. I picked this up in an Idaho pawn shop many years ago. A 1900 AE serial #10317. It has been converted to a 22 rim fire. The barrel was cut off forward of the serial number and a 22 barrel pinned into the receiver. The recoil spring was changed to a coil type. The original firing pin was converted to a rim fire. The rear toggle was cut down to reduce weight. An adjustable rear sight was added. The mag is an original wood bottom lined with a 22 mag (Erma?). All the numbers match. It must have been a fairly nice 1900 AE. Interesting piece anyway. Good gunsmithing and functions very well with hi-velocity 22's. __________________ Bill Lyon

01-18-2008, 10:01 PM	#7
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	John The ejector has had the arm ? extended. Bill; __________________ Bill Lyon

01-19-2008, 12:45 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Ejector or extractor? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-19-2008, 01:04 AM	#9
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Ron & John- The ejector arm(?) has been lengthened and a deeper groove cut in the breech block. See pictures. Included is a picture of the barrel pin. The extractor has been reworked - lowered to pick up a 22 case? __________________ Bill Lyon

01-19-2008, 02:05 AM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	That really is a marvelous piece of work! I thought it would be a straight blow-back action like the .22 kits, but I see that it appears to be a short recoil and the frame ramps have been built up to break the toggle quicker. The more I look at these pictures the more I admire the skill of the craftsman that made it. The breechblock is a work of art. Now that I have looked a little closer, I can see that the extractor channel has been made deeper so that the extractor can reach down and capture the .22 rim. I would like a pic of the top of the breechblock and a shot or two of the back of the toggle and the rear sight setup. That is one neat little puppy! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-19-2008, 02:50 AM	#11
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Ron; Will send some tomarrow. I am computer stupid and my computer programmer wife has gone to bed. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-19-2008, 01:22 PM	#12
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Ron - Here are a few more pictures. The rear sight is dovetailed in and is adjustable for windage and elevation. I edited the post above your last one and included some pictures. I think we must have put them on together. The rear toggle was drilled through four times, a couple of them filled again. If you need any others or better shots, just ask. When I bought this ($160), I tried to find out who had done the work. They could only tell me an older man who worked on guns for a hobby. __________________ Bill Lyon

01-19-2008, 03:25 PM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	A really cool piece. Great part of a Luger collection.

01-19-2008, 04:36 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Thanks a ton Bill! You really got your $160 worth! From the top view of the breechblock I can see that the old gentleman replaced the 1900 one piece extractor with an adaptation of the new model pivoted extractor with a separate small spring. The gun is a fantastic modification and a delight to see. I really appreciate the photos. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-20-2008, 02:02 AM	#15
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Bill super interesting conversion thanks !!! for sharing the photos and details does the rear of the barrel extension have the rear toggle axle relocated lower than original ? appears overall this now operates as a blowback - will the breechblock and toggle open up before the rear toggle ears touch the frame ramps ? thanks Bill

01-20-2008, 12:08 PM	#16
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Bill Will try and answer your questions later today. I expect Ron Wood can answer your questions from the photos. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-20-2008, 04:36 PM	#17
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,635 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,556 Times in 954 Posts	Bill The rear toggle connecting pin has been worked on. I have nothing to compare the location to. The pin is smaller than the rest of my lugers but I do not have another 1900. The breech block and toggle do not open before the rear toggle touches the frame ramps. Hope I have answered your question. Maybe John S and/or Ron W will jump in here. Thanks for your interest. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-23-2008, 02:48 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Looking at the photo of the rear of the receiver, it does not appear that the rear toggle axle pin has been lowered. The connecting link however has been extensively modified. The pivot point on the toggle for the link has been moved far forward to right behind the toggle knobs and the link itself has been made longer. The pivot point between the rear and forward toggle links has also been raised. The gunsmith has completely changed the geometry of the toggle train to accommodate the .22 round. Again, I am impressed with the ingenuity of his modifications. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-02-2008, 10:03 PM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	This was a great educational engineering thread... I am starting a new thread that will provide a photo essay of the attempted .22 conversion of a standard Luger upper that was shown by Ed Tinker above... The new thread subject will be "Modification of a Standard Upper to .22" The thread will be located under the Post WW-II Lugers Discussion Forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-31-2014, 05:03 AM	#20
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	Wondeful work. This thread should not be lost in time. Last edited by kurusu; 10-31-2014 at 09:39 AM.