Police Luger found

Neil Young · 04-07-2010, 12:23 PM

Today, I found what I think is a police luger. It is a commercial model with 1921 on the chamber, s/n--87156. It has the sear safety and the magazine safety. I'm guessing it's about 90%+ and the straw and bore look good. All of the numbers found match including toggle pin, firing pin and the No. 2 police magazine. However, I find no numbers on the safety lever and the little tab that comes up when the safety is worked. There are no markings on the hold-open or the grips. Someone has recently done a crude job of enlarging the right grip opening for magazine release button. The front grip strap marking is S.W.I. 764. He wants $1,100. Comments please

Neil

Don M · 04-07-2010, 01:55 PM

Neil, it is indeed a police pistol having belonged to the Schutzpolizei command in Frankfurt am Main in the Weisbaden administrative district. It is also one of the anomalous 1921-dated DWMs with a five-digit serial number. They are a cross between military and commercial models that DWM apparently put together about the time their military production was shut down by the IMKK. The Frankfurt Schupo had a number of these. More information can be found in HWIS, pp. 127-9.

What stamps are found on the left and right sides of the receiver?

Neil Young · 04-07-2010, 02:17 PM

Don:
Thanks for the quick reply. I did find it in HWIS. In fact, one in the table on p. 128 is No. 775, which is very close to this weapon and If I remember correctly, the S/N is close too. I don't know if the unmarked parts that I previously mentioned are normal, including the grips. Do you think that the price is reasonable?

I'll have to go back to the gun shop to get the markings you requested, but I will do so.

Neil

John Sabato · 04-07-2010, 02:36 PM

Take your camera with you to the gunshop and do closeups of the top both sides and front of the trigger guard where the serial number is... make sure they are in sharp focus...then post them here for comment.

If the pistol hasn't been messed with, and I don't think it has been from your description, then I don't think the price is out of line. Just my $0.02

Don M · 04-07-2010, 05:30 PM

Neil, I don't know if the other reported 5-digit 1921 DWMs have full military-style serialing but it does not surprise me at all that this one does not. These are neither fish nor fowl! .... but interesting nonetheless.

Neil Young · 04-08-2010, 12:57 PM

John: The only thing that is stamped on the frame front is the serial number--87156.

Don: On the right side of the receiver is the double dove and buzzard markings. In fact, it is marked like the one shown by Hawaiico in his post entitled Dwm 1921 dated 12-20-2009 (just search Hawaiico). His s/n is 87191, which is very close to the pistol in question. There is nothing on the left side except the serial number.

The bottom of the barrel just has the serial number and 8,83. On top of the barrel is a mark just like the one shown on the fourth photo down in the post by charly239 entitled 1921 DWM curious proofmarks, dated 09-06-2009. I haven't been able to find this mark elsewhere.

Thanks.

Neil

Don M · 04-08-2010, 03:57 PM

Neil, in one of the replies in Hawaiico's thread, Dwight Gruber indicated the barrel stamp is an incompletely struck Weimar firing proof (the so-called buzzard). Yours is probably the same.

Neil Young · 04-09-2010, 04:46 PM

Okay, you guys knew I would buy it--I got it for $969. Check the photos--I think that I did okay, or at least I hope so.

Thenks.

Neil

Don M · 04-09-2010, 08:48 PM

Neil, ya done real good!

mrerick · 04-09-2010, 08:50 PM

Shouldn't an original DWM magazine have a wooden base? Was the s/n added to a Mauser magazine?

Don M · 04-09-2010, 10:10 PM

It is an arsenal replacement mag. Perfectly proper for police Lugers.

Neil Young · 04-09-2010, 10:22 PM

Don Maus--thank you so much for all of your help in assisting me in making the right decision on this pistol.

Neil

04-07-2010, 12:23 PM	#1
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	Police Luger found Today, I found what I think is a police luger. It is a commercial model with 1921 on the chamber, s/n--87156. It has the sear safety and the magazine safety. I'm guessing it's about 90%+ and the straw and bore look good. All of the numbers found match including toggle pin, firing pin and the No. 2 police magazine. However, I find no numbers on the safety lever and the little tab that comes up when the safety is worked. There are no markings on the hold-open or the grips. Someone has recently done a crude job of enlarging the right grip opening for magazine release button. The front grip strap marking is S.W.I. 764. He wants $1,100. Comments please Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

04-07-2010, 01:55 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Neil, it is indeed a police pistol having belonged to the Schutzpolizei command in Frankfurt am Main in the Weisbaden administrative district. It is also one of the anomalous 1921-dated DWMs with a five-digit serial number. They are a cross between military and commercial models that DWM apparently put together about the time their military production was shut down by the IMKK. The Frankfurt Schupo had a number of these. More information can be found in HWIS, pp. 127-9. What stamps are found on the left and right sides of the receiver? __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-07-2010, 02:17 PM	#3
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	Don: Thanks for the quick reply. I did find it in HWIS. In fact, one in the table on p. 128 is No. 775, which is very close to this weapon and If I remember correctly, the S/N is close too. I don't know if the unmarked parts that I previously mentioned are normal, including the grips. Do you think that the price is reasonable? I'll have to go back to the gun shop to get the markings you requested, but I will do so. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

04-07-2010, 02:36 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Take your camera with you to the gunshop and do closeups of the top both sides and front of the trigger guard where the serial number is... make sure they are in sharp focus...then post them here for comment. If the pistol hasn't been messed with, and I don't think it has been from your description, then I don't think the price is out of line. Just my $0.02 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-07-2010, 05:30 PM	#5
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Neil, I don't know if the other reported 5-digit 1921 DWMs have full military-style serialing but it does not surprise me at all that this one does not. These are neither fish nor fowl! .... but interesting nonetheless. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-08-2010, 12:57 PM	#6
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	John: The only thing that is stamped on the frame front is the serial number--87156. Don: On the right side of the receiver is the double dove and buzzard markings. In fact, it is marked like the one shown by Hawaiico in his post entitled Dwm 1921 dated 12-20-2009 (just search Hawaiico). His s/n is 87191, which is very close to the pistol in question. There is nothing on the left side except the serial number. The bottom of the barrel just has the serial number and 8,83. On top of the barrel is a mark just like the one shown on the fourth photo down in the post by charly239 entitled 1921 DWM curious proofmarks, dated 09-06-2009. I haven't been able to find this mark elsewhere. Thanks. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

04-08-2010, 03:57 PM	#7
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Neil, in one of the replies in Hawaiico's thread, Dwight Gruber indicated the barrel stamp is an incompletely struck Weimar firing proof (the so-called buzzard). Yours is probably the same. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-09-2010, 04:46 PM	#8
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	Okay, you guys knew I would buy it--I got it for $969. Check the photos--I think that I did okay, or at least I hope so. Thenks. Neil Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

04-09-2010, 08:48 PM	#9
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Neil, ya done real good! __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-09-2010, 08:50 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,907 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,108 Times in 1,509 Posts	Shouldn't an original DWM magazine have a wooden base? Was the s/n added to a Mauser magazine?

04-09-2010, 10:10 PM	#11
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	It is an arsenal replacement mag. Perfectly proper for police Lugers. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

04-09-2010, 10:22 PM	#12
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 545 Thanks: 559 Thanked 442 Times in 168 Posts	Don Maus--thank you so much for all of your help in assisting me in making the right decision on this pistol. Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.