Loose Safety

[Hbt]

I recently took my 1918/1920 Luger to the range to try out for the first time. I used a new Mec-Gar magazine with Hornady 115 grain hollow point ammo (unable to find target ammo).

The pistol worked fine with the exception that every time I fired (left handed), the safety lever shifts down a hair preventing me from firing until I slide the safety back into the "off" position.

Any suggestions as to how I can remedy this?

---Chris

[stressed]

Have you replaced the grips? I had this problem after fitting new grips, where it would move a cm or so and prevent the gun from firing after so many shots. Sanded out area where safety bar operates, no problems.

[Hbt]

It has the original grips, but they are a bit loose.

[sheepherder]

My 1900AE has this same problem. The safety is its own spring, intended to locate the 'nub' on the back with the two depressions in the frame. My 'nub' is worn and the safety tends to 'flop' a bit.

I don't know what could be done to correct this. I don't intend to try bending the safety itself.

Maybe someone like Thor could suggest a 'fix'. I imagine he's run into this problem in many of his restorations.

[ithacaartist]

To quote Hubert Farnsworth, of Futurama fame, "Good news, everyone!" The safety's lever is soft enough to do the tweaking Rich mentions. It won't take much to make its two positions crisp and secure. You might first check to see if the lever's retaining pin is still doing its job, and not allowing the part of the lever you don't see to be loose--which condition will also have the same effect. Lugerdoc has oversize pins, or you can use part of the shank from a drill bit that is the appropriate diameter. Don't forget to use non-marring tools/padded vise!

[John Sabato]

Micro welding can build up the "nub" on the back of the safety lever to better engage the depressions on the left frame ear.

[ithacaartist]

John, I was searching micro welding and subsequently re-visited this thread.

The back side of the end of an Erma Luger-styled pistol's safety lever has a ball bearing and a spring set into well for them. The bb pops into the detentes and the spring holds the lever in position. This is found on the Zamak models made in the 60s and also the later KGP(X) models. This setup is different from the P.08, which has the nub.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

The back side of the end of an Erma Luger-styled pistol's safety lever has a ball bearing and a spring set into well for them. The bb pops into the detentes and the spring holds the lever in position. This is found on the Zamak models made in the 60s and also the later KGP(X) models. This setup is different from the P.08, which has the nub.

Sounds like an experiment that would benefit all LugerForum members!

Please post your modified P-08 safety results - with pics!

[Lugerdoc]

As mentioned above, it's most likely that the safety lever retaining pin has loosened or it missing. A $5 item post paid. If this pin is correct, you shouldn't have to bend your lever. TH

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

You might first check to see if the lever's retaining pin is still doing its job, and not allowing the part of the lever you don't see to be loose...

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

As mentioned above, it's most likely that the safety lever retaining pin has loosened or it missing.

I took my 1900AE apart and am examining the safety lever retaining pin...It only comes out/goes in one way, and tapping on it with a punch, it doesn't seem to be loose...

I notice that the 1900AE lever is actually free, not attached to anything, and simply blocks the grip safety lever/bar...When it is not actually touching the grip safety lever/bar, it is floppy...When it does touch it, it is tight/snug...This would be the Up/Safe position...

My 'nub' is at the extreme end of the safety lever; drilling it for a ball & spring would not be practical...

I'm tempted to drift the pin out and look at my nub...I'll clamp it in my mill vise and see how difficult it is to drift out, and whether it is worn/bent/or broken...

Edit: Some surprising observations!

As shown in the pics below, I drifted the safety lever pin out (it only comes out/goes in one way), removed the safety lever, and examined the lever and pin. The pin is fine; 2.5mm x 14mm, and not bent or worn. BUT...The lever had a buildup of hard crud on the inner side where the lever bears against the gripframe. The 'nub' was also quite worn. Removing the crud and re-assembling the lever, I found that the 'floppiness' was gone...

I conclude that the buildup of 'crud' was keeping the lever from seating fully. Brass-wire brushing the 'crud' off has greatly alleviated the 'floppy' problem. The safety lever now locks snugly in both positions, and the lever has enough spring in its arch to hold it against the gripframe between positions.

My sincere "Thanks!" to Dave and Tom for clarifying this problem and its solution!

Note: I should point out that my Luger in the pics is an "Old Model"/1900AE, the flat-mainspring grip safety model. The "New Model"/P-08 safety is slightly different in construction and dis-assembly.

[Bill Sipple]

An older thread, but I have recently cleaned my G Luger and noticed that the safety lever now flops around quite loosely. I think it was working before due to excess goop and gunk (technical terms) which I removed during cleaning.
I noticed that "sheepherder" 's lever has an arch. Mine does not. That must be the "spring" action which I need. How do I safely re-arch this piece ? It is matching numbered so I don't want to ruin it or replace it.
And what is this about the pin ? I drove mine out through the frame and it seems fine. It is a tight fit and I need a small drift to install it and remove it.
Thanks

[Bill Sipple]

One more slightly related question: after cleaning, my mag release button will not stay in place. I have the small curved spring installed correctly, with the tiny dimple inserted into the frame slot, but it seems about a mm too short to engage the button and the frame at the same time. Again, it could be that it was so gunked up originally that maybe that's what kept it in place. Or, could I have chipped off a mm of this spring at either end ? It will definitely either engage the frame, or the button, but not both (almost not both).

[Ron Wood]

The topic of a floppy safety lever has come up several times in the past. I don't recommend clamping it in a vise to bend it. The method I use is to lay the lever on a hard surface over a small diameter drill bit and press down on both ends. This will gently "re-arch" the lever. You can sneak up on the proper arch by using increasing diameter drill bits, but go slow and don't over do it.

Also years ago I couldn't convince a forum member that you couldn't drive out the pin from the bottom. He actually started grinding on frame at the top end of the pin to "free it up". I drew this diagram to illustrate the proper way but it still took a couple of posts to get the message across.

[Ben M.]

what would caused the opposite? a very tight safety lever. how to fix?

[Bill Sipple]

Thanks Ron. I will try the drill bit method. I assume that this only applies to the safety part with the nub. The other end, behind the pivot, is much thinner metal but I guess would only apply resistance to the sear-blocking "leaf".

I did drive out the pin the correct way as you diagram. It is fairly stiff, so I wonder why some have mentioned this as a way to stiffen up the safety lever ? Doesn't seem to be a factor to me.

Any idea if my mag release spring is the correct length ? There are replacements out there, and its not a numbered part, but I don't want to waste my time and money if its just me screwing up. I place the mag release in first correctly, then slide the spring convex side against the frame, and engage the mag release button. Then I carefully tap the dimpled end into its obvious slot on the frame. That's where the trouble starts. Barely a 1/10th of a mm engagement there. To my poor eyes up close, it seems there is a good gap left in the frame slot for a longer spring to fit. When I removed it, it is not beyond reason that I could have broken off a mm and not seen it.
Anyways, it worked before and not now since "cleaning".
Thanks

[CAP Black]

I once had a mag release button that didn't want to release and my gunsmith bent it back to proper shape and re-inserted and it works fine; but I don't know how he did it. Sorry not much help. But it had been pushed so many times and perhaps had been over extended.
Jack

[alanint]

Originally Posted by Bill Sipple

Thanks Ron. I will try the drill bit method. I assume that this only applies to the safety part with the nub. The other end, behind the pivot, is much thinner metal but I guess would only apply resistance to the sear-blocking "leaf".

I did drive out the pin the correct way as you diagram. It is fairly stiff, so I wonder why some have mentioned this as a way to stiffen up the safety lever ? Doesn't seem to be a factor to me.

Any idea if my mag release spring is the correct length ? There are replacements out there, and its not a numbered part, but I don't want to waste my time and money if its just me screwing up. I place the mag release in first correctly, then slide the spring convex side against the frame, and engage the mag release button. Then I carefully tap the dimpled end into its obvious slot on the frame. That's where the trouble starts. Barely a 1/10th of a mm engagement there. To my poor eyes up close, it seems there is a good gap left in the frame slot for a longer spring to fit. When I removed it, it is not beyond reason that I could have broken off a mm and not seen it.
Anyways, it worked before and not now since "cleaning".
Thanks

Bill, I start by inserting the spring in the frame first, then gently moving it to the side enough to fit around the magazine release button, once it is slid in. Tension is created by having the bulk of the spring inside the frame slot. Only the very smallest tip of the spring should be inserted in the mag catch.

[Bill Sipple]

Hmm. This is interesting. I will give that a try. Seems I was inserting into the button slot first. I wish I had paid more attention when I disassembled.
Thanks

[Ron Wood]

With an original button and spring, inserting the spring into the button slot first and then rotating it into the frame slot is the proper way to assemble them. The slot in the button is curved at the bottom to retain the spring...the spring is meant to stay in the button. Bazillions of springs and buttons have been messed up because folks try to drive the spring out of the button rather than depressing the top of the spring and rotating it out of the frame. I suspect that is what has happened to this spring.