My first Luger!!!

[stevedz313]

I finally got to get my first Luger. From what I can gather it is a 1941 BYF marked all matching including the firing pin, the 3 mags do not, and it came with a holster. I got some pics that I took, but the camera does not take great pictures. Please let me know if there is anything that you would like me to photo, look for, etc. I wold like to know all that i can about this luger (make,year that it was made in, how much is it worth,ect). It has Black grips. The G.I that had it put his serial # on the frame and grips of the gun.

[stevedz313]

and some more pics

[Stu]

Hi Steve. A wonderful find for you, I dream of coming across something like this.

As you probably know it's a 1942 Mauser, (the grips have the sales pitch name 'black widow'). The whole package looks very nice.

The experts will come along and fill in the details I'm sure.

I believe a majority of collectors will consider Mr Martins enthusiastic marking of his property a detriment to value though.

Looking forward to reading the follow up on your new purchase.

Stu

[the gunman]

Nice gun . Value is decreased quite a bit because of the added markings. Gun is now in shooter class. Not collector grade. But very nice. Always nice to have the capture papers
it adds to the guns history.

[tudorbug]

Steve:

The number scratched on the pistol is the Social Security Account Number of Arthur A. Martin. He died in Higden, Arkansas on 11 June 1994 according to the Social Security Death Index.

Hugh H. Larock, whose name is on the capture paper, probaby died in February 1986 in Sparta, Wisconsin according to the same source.

Interesting how such a pistol can be linked to a man, or to men, who were real people and lived real lives.

If there were an interest, a request could be made to the National Personnel Record Center to see if the service record of Hugh Larock could be obtained.

Interesting pistol made more so by it's tie to named persons.

David

[stevedz313]

Originally posted by tudorbug
Steve:

The number scratched on the pistol is the Social Security Account Number of Arthur A. Martin. He died in Higden, Arkansas on 11 June 1994 according to the Social Security Death Index.

Hugh H. Larock, whose name is on the capture paper, probaby died in February 1986 in Sparta, Wisconsin according to the same source.

Interesting how such a pistol can be linked to a man, or to men, who were real people and lived real lives.

If there were an interest, a request could be made to the National Personnel Record Center to see if the service record of Hugh Larock could be obtained.

Interesting pistol made more so by it's tie to named persons.

David

thank you for telling me that was his ss# I did not know that. I can not get the Military Records of a deceased veteran .I need to be the next-of-kin of the deceased veteran and it is Interesting how such a pistol can be linked to a man or men.

[lugerholsterrepair]

If Mr Martin wern't already dead it would be good to look him up and sock him on the jaw for defacing such a beautiful pistol. Jerry Burney

[stevedz313]

Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair
If Mr Martin wern't already dead it would be good to look him up and sock him on the jaw for defacing such a beautiful pistol. Jerry Burney

[John Sabato]

Steve,

despite the marks made by the war trophy owner, you have one of the finest examples of Mauser military wartime production, and some great accessories.

Own it with pride... preserve it for future generations of your heirs... and Welcome to the Lugerforum fraternity of owners.

[RockinWR]

Steve,
* Does your byf '42 have a lower case alpha suffix letter under the "3744" marked on the vertical face of the frame just forward of the trigger guard?
* ALso, can you tell us what the magazine(s) S/N's are including the suffix and waffen Inspector's number?
* IIRC, about 113,000 byf '42's were made over the 10 months Mauser remained in Luger production that year before switching to essentially Army P.38 production.
* Maker, City, Date, & Army Inspector's acceptance on the holster are evident & pretty self explanitory. If the right belt loop requires repair, lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com (Jerry Burney) is as best as they come for a period correct repair.
* Nice find & the lineage to you from the original US soldier is just part of the history of this rig attesting to the value these former Luger's owners felt for this example. Three mag suggests it shot pretty good too. One mag was probably used to conserve the other two original ones from breakage/wear/etc. While you may not be able to access the deceased vet's history, you may be able to explore the 268th Port Co. listed on the capture paper's for battle history dates/locations.
* Hope this helps & welcome to the Forum.
Respectfully,
Bob

[tudorbug]

Steve:

A person not a descendant of a veteran can obain the veteran's service record from the National Personnel Service Center. The record contains abbreviated information.

Here is the Center url:

http://www.archives.gov/facilities/m...l_records.html

and there note this text:

"This site is provided for those seeking information regarding military personnel, health and medical records stored at NPRC (MPR). If you are a veteran or next-of-kin of a deceased veteran, you may now use vetrecs.archives.gov to order a copy of your military records. For all others, your request is best made using a Standard Form 180. It includes complete instructions for preparing and submitting requests."

I did this for a veteran to whom I was not related and whose capture paper appeared on this forum more than a year ago. I received a response, however, it took 11 months for the response to arrive. To see the resulting partial record, look on this forum under "All P-08 Military Lugers." Go to the second page of threads under this title and you will see the title, "ok gents... here it is, a vet bring back" and then on the second page under this thread view the "tudorbug" entry dated 03/15/05.

Hope this is small help. If you have more questions, please ask. I'll be happy to respond.

David
David

[Edward Tinker]

Steve, the next photos, can you post them so they are on this forum? photobucket will delete the photos after a period of time, and then the thread will lose a lot of its richness.

It is a great learning tool to be able to see the photos and the words to a thread.

thanks,

Ed

[stevedz313]

Originally posted by RockinWR
Steve,
* ALso, can you tell us what the magazine(s) S/N's are including the suffix and waffen Inspector's number?
* IIRC, about 113,000 byf '42's were made over the 10 months Mauser remained in Luger production that year before switching to essentially Army P.38 production.
* Maker, City, Date, & Army Inspector's acceptance on the holster are evident & pretty self explanitory. If the right belt loop requires repair, lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com (Jerry Burney) is as best as they come for a period correct repair.
* Nice find & the lineage to you from the original US soldier is just part of the history of this rig attesting to the value these former Luger's owners felt for this example. Three mag suggests it shot pretty good too. One mag was probably used to conserve the other two original ones from breakage/wear/etc. While you may not be able to access the deceased vet's history, you may be able to explore the 268th Port Co. listed on the capture paper's for battle history dates/locations.
* Hope this helps & welcome to the Forum.
Respectfully,
Bob

Q: Does your byf '42 have a lower case alpha suffix letter under the "3744" marked on the vertical face of the frame just forward of the trigger guard?

A: No it has suffix of a b

if the right belt loop requires repair, lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com (Jerry Burney) is as best as they come for a period correct repair.

Will this efeect the value????


Q: ALso, can you tell us what the magazine(s) S/N's are including the suffix and waffen Inspector's number?

A:the 1st mag is 4990
v
+
then it looks like a eagle whith a 63

the 2ed mag is 8944
it kind of look like a #

The 3rd mag is a after-market mag

[Edward Tinker]

will the holster repair affect the value?

Well the question is, how valuable is it unfixed? I feel that a slight repair like that affects the value very little. for one thing, if Jerry or another person repairs it correctly (i.e. not a shoe repair or other place that makes new holes), then the value will go up.

ed

[stevedz313]

[stevedz313]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
Steve, the next photos, can you post them so they are on this forum? photobucket will delete the photos after a period of time, and then the thread will lose a lot of its richness.

It is a great learning tool to be able to see the photos and the words to a thread.

thanks,

Ed

I had pics in photobucket since i opened it in 2004 and none of the pis were ever deleted.

[Edward Tinker]

That may be true, but my point is that not everyone keeps the photos there. Many times users delete the photos after a couple of months, it might be photo bucket or some other place. As an example, if the picture site is down, unavailable, or busy, then you see just the text here.

[RockinWR]

Hi Steve,
* Thanks you for your detailed response to my questions.
* Being a "b" block, your pistol falls in the early portion of the accepted byf '42 S/N range of 500ns - 149m. With 113,000 byf '42's estimated to have been produced in the 10 months P.08 production was active @ Mauser Oberndorf, a simplified average of 11,300 per month suggests your pistol was assembled/tested in early March, 1942. However, a number of no suffix and "a" block pistols were chamber dated 1941 & were intermixed in the transition to the byf '42's at the start of 1942; so, it is possible your pistol may have been assembled in Feb., 1942 if all went smoothly. Conversely, if your pistol did not promptly pass tests & had to be repaired, it may have lagged even a month into April, '42. Also, averages are averages and may not accurately represent the true assembly flow/ HWaA acceptance at Mauser. I'd imagine the war taking a turn in the East added pressure for sidearms of all types; so, I'll leave it to you to pick the month most likely for your example.
* The 1st mag bearing S/N 4990v and sE/63 likely was contemporary to your 1939 holster, It was issued as the spare mag(+) for the pistol bearing the same S/N.
* The 2nd mag (8944) remains unidentifiable at present. Maybe a pic of the bottom plug, side construction & any side markings would lend insight.
* Hope this helps fill in some of the Info you wished to know about your Luger. Welcome to the fraternity!
Respectfully,
Bob

[stevedz313]

Originally posted by RockinWR
Hi Steve,
* Thanks you for your detailed response to my questions.
* Being a "b" block, your pistol falls in the early portion of the accepted byf '42 S/N range of 500ns - 149m. With 113,000 byf '42's estimated to have been produced in the 10 months P.08 production was active @ Mauser Oberndorf, a simplified average of 11,300 per month suggests your pistol was assembled/tested in early March, 1942. However, a number of no suffix and "a" block pistols were chamber dated 1941 & were intermixed in the transition to the byf '42's at the start of 1942; so, it is possible your pistol may have been assembled in Feb., 1942 if all went smoothly. Conversely, if your pistol did not promptly pass tests & had to be repaired, it may have lagged even a month into April, '42. Also, averages are averages and may not accurately represent the true assembly flow/ HWaA acceptance at Mauser. I'd imagine the war taking a turn in the East added pressure for sidearms of all types; so, I'll leave it to you to pick the month most likely for your example.
* The 1st mag bearing S/N 4990v and sE/63 likely was contemporary to your 1939 holster, It was issued as the spare mag(+) for the pistol bearing the same S/N.
* The 2nd mag (8944) remains unidentifiable at present. Maybe a pic of the bottom plug, side construction & any side markings would lend insight.
* Hope this helps fill in some of the Info you wished to know about your Luger. Welcome to the fraternity!
Respectfully,
Bob

Thank you for your reply. These are the pics of the mag that you have trouble identifying. Thay are dark but it is the best i can do. Thanks again.

[RockinWR]

Hi Steve,
* Again, thanks for your mag pics.
* The "8944" mag pictured appears to have started life as a WW1 magazine. The original tin colored tube was solution treated with an anti-rust agent(?) leaving a gold hue. Sometime in the 20's, this mag's wood bottom was likely renumbered in the large numeral Police style. The "extra" number you see is probably a "1" or "2" or , possibly. a "3". This is common on Police issued mags.
* No idea how this mag sprouted the blue tint. Is it the pics or someone might have tried to cold blue the mag to give it the appearance of the other two. Just a guess.
* Hope this helps. Thanks for sharing your 1st P.08 with us.
Respectfully,
Bob: