S/42 with alloy frame?

bearthompson · 02-18-2011, 10:45 PM

I've found a 9mm Mauser S/42 with steel slide and a flat/non-glossy (aluminum?) alloy frame. Serial numbers on frame and slide are 394277; barrel/slide marked with letter "G," 69, and S/42; also has markings 11/154, S92, and an eagle proof mark. Is this gun a fake -- perhaps a genuine slide/barrel fitted to a frame handmade by some skilled gunsmith (of which there are plenty here in the Philippines)?

DavidJayUden · 02-18-2011, 11:22 PM

Need to see a lot of pictures, for our own curiosity at least. Is the frame magnetic?
dju

drbuster · 02-19-2011, 02:41 AM

The serial number is way out of the highest original commercial number and probably is a made up gun. As David says, we need photos.

bearthompson · 02-19-2011, 03:44 AM

Thanks; owner's agent (I'm getting this all second-hand) now says frame is indeed steel, but was refinished with a brushed nickel plating that makes it look like some kind of alloy. I've seen a number of valuable antique pistols refinished in that manner here, so that makes sense. (Of course it greatly reduces their value.) Serial number still sounds mighty fishy, though -- any thoughts about that? Not sure how to post photos (I have four rather poor-quality photos -- apparently taken by cellphone); I get a prompt for a URL/website.

alanint · 02-19-2011, 10:04 AM

This sounds like what is actually being described is a post war P38, or P1

EricW · 02-19-2011, 08:02 PM

I was thinking a G Date upper... "11/154, S92" may actually be W 154 S92 ?

1969goatman · 02-20-2011, 07:53 AM

I would love to see this frame? Is it possible you can post a few pictures of it on here. Or send to my e-mail??

sheepherder · 02-20-2011, 10:04 AM

Are you sure it's 9mm??? Some of the .22 "Lugers" have zinc frames...

I've also noticed that some of the 'replica' Lugers offered on eBay are metal; most likely zinc...

Bongos · 02-21-2011, 01:08 AM

ugh, I hope the filipino didn't chrome it or add shiny stuff, it sickens me to see new cars with ugly shiny trinkets glued to it...here in CA it happen alot and yes , filipino loves guns

bearthompson · 02-26-2011, 07:35 PM

Turns out frame is actually steel, but weird brushed-nickel finish led my scout/agent/"bird-dog" to conclude incorrectly that it was some kind of alloy. Kudos to EricW; markings I described near the front/barrel on right side of chamber are indeed W154 and S92, followed by a stylized tiny eagle. I very much suspect the serial number (394277, on left side of chamber, and on front of frame, above triggerguard) is fake, since parts of toggle, sear safety, etc. are all marked 69, which must have been last two digits of original serial number. (By the way, there appears to be a sort of stylized script letter "a" just below serial number on front of frame.) Here's my question to you Luger gurus... if I take this pistol apart, is there anywhere else on/in the pistol where entire original serial number could be found (since 394277 on chamber and frame is apparently wrong)?
(I suppose one alternative is that perhaps it was made up from two pistols, one that had a frame and chamber numbered 394277, with toggle and many/most internal parts from a second pistol that had a serial number ending in 69. ...But if that were the case, what would explain the "G" on top of the chamber -- which could never have been on a pistol with a six-digit serial number?)

drbuster · 02-26-2011, 08:26 PM

Philip, no original luger ever left the factory with a six digit serial number. That #394277 has to be a fantasy stamping. The frame is probably not part of the original luger so the only other place the full original serial number would have been stamped is under the barrel close to where it is screwed into the frame, providing of course, the barrel is original. The "G", as I'm sure you know, was a Mauser code for 1935. It would be nice to clear this situation up once and for all by getting and posting some clear photographs.

bearthompson · 02-27-2011, 05:40 AM

I'll do the best I can with my little Sony Cyber-Shot (it's not very good for closeups), but how can I post them here? (When I ask to post photos, the website asks for an Internet address.)

bearthompson · 02-27-2011, 05:53 AM

Allow me to repeat my question: apparently-fake serial number 394277 is on left side of chamber and above triggerguard at front of frame; for reasons known only to God, owner thinks original/true serial number "might be" 9169. In addition to left side of chamber and at front of frame under barrel, is the complete, original serial number available anywhere inside the pistol?

EricW · 02-27-2011, 07:15 AM

Just the last 2 digits elsewhere on the gun parts. The only other place the full serial number appears is on the original magazine bottoms. It would have been up to 4 digits with the script "a" suffix below the serial, a "+" on the second (spare) magazine, and the droop wing eagle (DE) 154 proof.

To post your photos, click on "go advanced" then click the paper clip icon and use the pop up window to browse and upload your photos.

bearthompson · 02-28-2011, 05:21 AM

Photos of (supposed) S/42 "G" Luger -- pistol may be a fake.

Vlim · 02-28-2011, 07:09 AM

This one screams for a restoration. The serial number has been altered without doubt. You can see that quite some material was removed from the front of the frame, where the new 'fantasy' number has been applied.

John Sabato · 02-28-2011, 08:55 AM

Without a legitimate paper trail, the possession of this firearm in the USA would be a federal offense. I would advise all parties to stay away from this Luger. The original serial number on the frame in front of the trigger guard has not only been "defaced" within the definition used by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), but has been completely replaced by a non-original number...

The only way this can happen is to have BATFE written authorization to replace the serial number... without this piece of paper, you have no idea how the serial number was altered or why... This gun could have easily been used in a crime.

Be afraid... be very afraid...and stay away from this gun.

bearthompson · 02-28-2011, 07:14 PM

Thanks for the good advice, Mr. Sabato; this Luger (if indeed it's even a real Luger -- lots of fake firearms are made here in artisanal workshops) sounds like a can of worms to steer clear of, and I'm going to advise my friend who found it to do the same. The whole thing's just too fishy/dicey/"dodgy".

Bongos · 02-28-2011, 07:38 PM

Looks like "942" as part of the orig serial, the "3 & at least one 7" as also added

02-18-2011, 10:45 PM	#1
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	S/42 with alloy frame? I've found a 9mm Mauser S/42 with steel slide and a flat/non-glossy (aluminum?) alloy frame. Serial numbers on frame and slide are 394277; barrel/slide marked with letter "G," 69, and S/42; also has markings 11/154, S92, and an eagle proof mark. Is this gun a fake -- perhaps a genuine slide/barrel fitted to a frame handmade by some skilled gunsmith (of which there are plenty here in the Philippines)?

02-19-2011, 08:02 PM	#6
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I was thinking a G Date upper... "11/154, S92" may actually be W 154 S92 ? __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead

02-20-2011, 10:04 AM	#8
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Are you sure it's 9mm??? Some of the .22 "Lugers" have zinc frames... I've also noticed that some of the 'replica' Lugers offered on eBay are metal; most likely zinc... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-27-2011, 07:15 AM	#14
EricW User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: CA, USA Posts: 62 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Just the last 2 digits elsewhere on the gun parts. The only other place the full serial number appears is on the original magazine bottoms. It would have been up to 4 digits with the script "a" suffix below the serial, a "+" on the second (spare) magazine, and the droop wing eagle (DE) 154 proof. To post your photos, click on "go advanced" then click the paper clip icon and use the pop up window to browse and upload your photos. __________________ I'm looking for a D suffix DE154 G Date mag. The closer to #457d the better PM me if you have one you are willing to sell, trade, or if you have a lead

02-28-2011, 05:21 AM	#15
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	S/42 "G" Luger Photos of (supposed) S/42 "G" Luger -- pistol may be a fake. Attached Thumbnails

02-18-2011, 11:22 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Need to see a lot of pictures, for our own curiosity at least. Is the frame magnetic? dju

02-19-2011, 02:41 AM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	The serial number is way out of the highest original commercial number and probably is a made up gun. As David says, we need photos.

02-19-2011, 03:44 AM	#4
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks; owner's agent (I'm getting this all second-hand) now says frame is indeed steel, but was refinished with a brushed nickel plating that makes it look like some kind of alloy. I've seen a number of valuable antique pistols refinished in that manner here, so that makes sense. (Of course it greatly reduces their value.) Serial number still sounds mighty fishy, though -- any thoughts about that? Not sure how to post photos (I have four rather poor-quality photos -- apparently taken by cellphone); I get a prompt for a URL/website.

02-19-2011, 10:04 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This sounds like what is actually being described is a post war P38, or P1

02-20-2011, 07:53 AM	#7
1969goatman Banned Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would love to see this frame? Is it possible you can post a few pictures of it on here. Or send to my e-mail??

02-21-2011, 01:08 AM	#9
Bongos User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orange County,CA Posts: 27 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	ugh, I hope the filipino didn't chrome it or add shiny stuff, it sickens me to see new cars with ugly shiny trinkets glued to it...here in CA it happen alot and yes , filipino loves guns

02-26-2011, 07:35 PM	#10
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Turns out frame is actually steel, but weird brushed-nickel finish led my scout/agent/"bird-dog" to conclude incorrectly that it was some kind of alloy. Kudos to EricW; markings I described near the front/barrel on right side of chamber are indeed W154 and S92, followed by a stylized tiny eagle. I very much suspect the serial number (394277, on left side of chamber, and on front of frame, above triggerguard) is fake, since parts of toggle, sear safety, etc. are all marked 69, which must have been last two digits of original serial number. (By the way, there appears to be a sort of stylized script letter "a" just below serial number on front of frame.) Here's my question to you Luger gurus... if I take this pistol apart, is there anywhere else on/in the pistol where entire original serial number could be found (since 394277 on chamber and frame is apparently wrong)? (I suppose one alternative is that perhaps it was made up from two pistols, one that had a frame and chamber numbered 394277, with toggle and many/most internal parts from a second pistol that had a serial number ending in 69. ...But if that were the case, what would explain the "G" on top of the chamber -- which could never have been on a pistol with a six-digit serial number?)

02-26-2011, 08:26 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Philip, no original luger ever left the factory with a six digit serial number. That #394277 has to be a fantasy stamping. The frame is probably not part of the original luger so the only other place the full original serial number would have been stamped is under the barrel close to where it is screwed into the frame, providing of course, the barrel is original. The "G", as I'm sure you know, was a Mauser code for 1935. It would be nice to clear this situation up once and for all by getting and posting some clear photographs.

02-27-2011, 05:40 AM	#12
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'll do the best I can with my little Sony Cyber-Shot (it's not very good for closeups), but how can I post them here? (When I ask to post photos, the website asks for an Internet address.)

02-27-2011, 05:53 AM	#13
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Allow me to repeat my question: apparently-fake serial number 394277 is on left side of chamber and above triggerguard at front of frame; for reasons known only to God, owner thinks original/true serial number "might be" 9169. In addition to left side of chamber and at front of frame under barrel, is the complete, original serial number available anywhere inside the pistol?

02-28-2011, 07:09 AM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,043 Thanks: 1,032 Thanked 3,928 Times in 1,194 Posts	This one screams for a restoration. The serial number has been altered without doubt. You can see that quite some material was removed from the front of the frame, where the new 'fantasy' number has been applied.

02-28-2011, 08:55 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Without a legitimate paper trail, the possession of this firearm in the USA would be a federal offense. I would advise all parties to stay away from this Luger. The original serial number on the frame in front of the trigger guard has not only been "defaced" within the definition used by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), but has been completely replaced by a non-original number... The only way this can happen is to have BATFE written authorization to replace the serial number... without this piece of paper, you have no idea how the serial number was altered or why... This gun could have easily been used in a crime. Be afraid... be very afraid...and stay away from this gun. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-28-2011, 07:14 PM	#18
bearthompson User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the good advice, Mr. Sabato; this Luger (if indeed it's even a real Luger -- lots of fake firearms are made here in artisanal workshops) sounds like a can of worms to steer clear of, and I'm going to advise my friend who found it to do the same. The whole thing's just too fishy/dicey/"dodgy".

02-28-2011, 07:38 PM	#19
Bongos User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orange County,CA Posts: 27 Thanks: 7 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Looks like "942" as part of the orig serial, the "3 & at least one 7" as also added