Fiocchi Issues

nukem556 · 06-24-2015, 09:20 PM

As the .30 Luger shooters know, Fiocchi is about the only semi-affordable game in town. I have however noticed a couple of undesirable quirks about it though. I'm just starting to reload it in quantity, and preparing brass, I discovered over 75% of my Fiocchi cases have the flash hole drilled way off center. I had to run my decapping pin slightly loose in the die to keep from breaking or bending it....Winchester cases were no problem. Also, factory Fiocchi ammo is WAY short on cartridge headspace. .30 Luger should measure .662 at a .355 datum point to the shoulder....my Fiocchi averages .642, a full .020 short. Winchester is a bit better, averaging .653. Fired cases from my 1900 show .671 chamber headspace.

DonVoigt · 06-24-2015, 11:55 PM

Have you tried contacting Fiocchi?

nukem556 · 06-25-2015, 12:11 AM

No, I no spikka de Italiano!

tomaustin · 06-25-2015, 12:19 AM

i expect they really don't want you to reload their casings.........

sheepherder · 06-25-2015, 12:58 AM

I have not noticed any off center primer holes in any of my Fiocchi 30 Luger cartridges...But mine are from a year or three ago, and they came from Midway...Maybe informing Fiocchi of the lot number of those cases and the pic of the off center hole would generate a dialogue that would be of interest here...

Sieger · 06-25-2015, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I have not noticed any off center primer holes in any of my Fiocchi 30 Luger cartridges...But mine are from a year or three ago, and they came from Midway...Maybe informing Fiocchi of the lot number of those cases and the pic of the off center hole would generate a dialogue that would be of interest here...

Bump!

Sieger

Sieger · 06-25-2015, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukem556

As the .30 Luger shooters know, Fiocchi is about the only semi-affordable game in town. I have however noticed a couple of undesirable quirks about it though. I'm just starting to reload it in quantity, and preparing brass, I discovered over 75% of my Fiocchi cases have the flash hole drilled way off center. I had to run my decapping pin slightly loose in the die to keep from breaking or bending it....Winchester cases were no problem. Also, factory Fiocchi ammo is WAY short on cartridge headspace. .30 Luger should measure .662 at a .355 datum point to the shoulder....my Fiocchi averages .642, a full .020 short. Winchester is a bit better, averaging .653. Fired cases from my 1900 show .671 chamber headspace.

Hi,

Your drawing of the cartridge, is it the original DWM drawing, or, a newer one?

Many modern pistols are chambered for the 7.65 Luger, particularly in Europe.

One would think that they headspace on the datum line, but is this true with the 7.65 Luger?

Sieger

kurusu · 06-25-2015, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukem556

Also, factory Fiocchi ammo is WAY short on cartridge headspace. .30 Luger should measure .662 at a .355 datum point to the shoulder....my Fiocchi averages .642, a full .020 short. Winchester is a bit better, averaging .653. Fired cases from my 1900 show .671 chamber headspace.

I have said before to watch for punctured primers when using .30 Fiocchi ammo, that is a result of the excessive headspace.

In a Luger the punctured primers can result in the breakeage of the rear of the bolt.

nukem556 · 06-25-2015, 10:55 AM

NO, Sieg, it's from the Lee reloading manual....I'm assuming its correct, but can't be totally sure....their dimensions from other cartridges that I'm more familiar working with do correspond to other sources though.

rhuff · 06-25-2015, 03:04 PM

I, so far, have not found any problems with off center flash holes when reloading Fiocchi brass. I have quite a large amount of this brass, and I will definitely watch for it.....thanks for the heads up.

I have also noticed the "loose" headspace with the new ammo. After firing, this is corrected and put in spec with a good/correct sizing die, but it does make one a bit concerned. I find the amount of headspace to be a bit more in my Lugers than in my BHP with a 30 Luger Bar-Sto bbl. I am assuming that the Bar-Sto bbl is at minimum chamber tolerances like they usually are, compared to the Lugers being more generous

bob2ovi · 06-26-2015, 11:06 AM

Why not use Starline brass. I have used it for a couple of years and have no problems with it.

rhuff · 06-26-2015, 05:06 PM

I just checked the headspace on the Finnish Military 30 Luger ammo that I just purchased. It appears to be on spec @ .661-.662 in. That is encouraging!! Now if it just had Boxer primers, I would be elated at that price point.

sheepherder · 06-26-2015, 06:00 PM

As already noted, the Euro specs are not the same as SAAMI specs...But unfortunately, RCBS, Lee, Pacific, and Clymer all make their products to SAAMI specs...So we're stuck with them...

nukem556 · 06-26-2015, 08:42 PM

Actually, my Lyman dies resize fired brass to .660, so thats ok.

rhuff · 06-27-2015, 03:55 PM

I chucked my RCBS sizing die up in a lathe and did a bit of "tuning" on the base so it would set the shoulder back just a bit more. My reloads now measure 0.670 in. and I am fine with that. My reloads function well in all of my 30 Luger barrels.

P. Octo · 07-11-2015, 01:31 PM

Fired brass from my 06 measured 0.664 at the datum line on the shoulder; unfired brass from Fiocchi, 0.640/650. I set my resizing die to 0.660 and it seems to work. Thanks for the interesting exchange and the diagrams!

06-24-2015, 09:20 PM	#1
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Fiocchi Issues As the .30 Luger shooters know, Fiocchi is about the only semi-affordable game in town. I have however noticed a couple of undesirable quirks about it though. I'm just starting to reload it in quantity, and preparing brass, I discovered over 75% of my Fiocchi cases have the flash hole drilled way off center. I had to run my decapping pin slightly loose in the die to keep from breaking or bending it....Winchester cases were no problem. Also, factory Fiocchi ammo is WAY short on cartridge headspace. .30 Luger should measure .662 at a .355 datum point to the shoulder....my Fiocchi averages .642, a full .020 short. Winchester is a bit better, averaging .653. Fired cases from my 1900 show .671 chamber headspace. Attached Thumbnails

06-25-2015, 12:58 AM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I have not noticed any off center primer holes in any of my Fiocchi 30 Luger cartridges...But mine are from a year or three ago, and they came from Midway...Maybe informing Fiocchi of the lot number of those cases and the pic of the off center hole would generate a dialogue that would be of interest here... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-26-2015, 06:00 PM	#13
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	As already noted, the Euro specs are not the same as SAAMI specs...But unfortunately, RCBS, Lee, Pacific, and Clymer all make their products to SAAMI specs...So we're stuck with them... Attached Thumbnails __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-24-2015, 11:55 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Have you tried contacting Fiocchi?

06-25-2015, 12:11 AM	#3
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	No, I no spikka de Italiano!

06-25-2015, 12:19 AM	#4
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	i expect they really don't want you to reload their casings.........

06-25-2015, 10:55 AM	#9
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	NO, Sieg, it's from the Lee reloading manual....I'm assuming its correct, but can't be totally sure....their dimensions from other cartridges that I'm more familiar working with do correspond to other sources though.

06-25-2015, 03:04 PM	#10
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,708 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I, so far, have not found any problems with off center flash holes when reloading Fiocchi brass. I have quite a large amount of this brass, and I will definitely watch for it.....thanks for the heads up. I have also noticed the "loose" headspace with the new ammo. After firing, this is corrected and put in spec with a good/correct sizing die, but it does make one a bit concerned. I find the amount of headspace to be a bit more in my Lugers than in my BHP with a 30 Luger Bar-Sto bbl. I am assuming that the Bar-Sto bbl is at minimum chamber tolerances like they usually are, compared to the Lugers being more generous

06-26-2015, 11:06 AM	#11
bob2ovi User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Westerville, Ohio Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Why not use Starline brass. I have used it for a couple of years and have no problems with it.

06-26-2015, 05:06 PM	#12
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,708 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I just checked the headspace on the Finnish Military 30 Luger ammo that I just purchased. It appears to be on spec @ .661-.662 in. That is encouraging!! Now if it just had Boxer primers, I would be elated at that price point.

06-26-2015, 08:42 PM	#14
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Actually, my Lyman dies resize fired brass to .660, so thats ok.

06-27-2015, 03:55 PM	#15
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,708 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I chucked my RCBS sizing die up in a lathe and did a bit of "tuning" on the base so it would set the shoulder back just a bit more. My reloads now measure 0.670 in. and I am fine with that. My reloads function well in all of my 30 Luger barrels.

07-11-2015, 01:31 PM	#16
P. Octo User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Cannes, France Posts: 32 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Fired brass from my 06 measured 0.664 at the datum line on the shoulder; unfired brass from Fiocchi, 0.640/650. I set my resizing die to 0.660 and it seems to work. Thanks for the interesting exchange and the diagrams!