1923 Matching or not?

DAVID · 06-09-2001, 04:11 AM

with unnumbered forward toggle. Thanks for any opinions

Johnny Peppers · 06-09-2001, 11:59 AM

Is the breech block proofed in the normal place? I would say that it would be a later replacement if it is not numbered. Is the pistol in question serial numbered in the standard continuation of the original commercial serial number range, or after the letter suffix was initiated?

DAVID · 06-09-2001, 12:10 PM

I am not talking about the breachblock. But the forward toggle with the DWM marking. The DWM marked part is proofed on the left side with the horizontal crown N. The pistol is a 5 digit serial. There is no number on the bottom of this part which matches the last two digits of the serial. there is a single number 8 which looks an inspection mark.

BILL · 06-09-2001, 02:32 PM

David, the M1923, according to Jan Still's 'Weimar Lugers' shows up with a variety of parts and pieces that may or may not be stamped since, for the most part, they were factory 'parts' guns. I would take the pistol into some really bright light (maybe outside) and look at the finish. If the bluing, the wear, the luster, any brownish or reddish patina under the bluing (noticeable at the breaks of the sharp edges) is all consistant with the rest of the pistol, I would not worry about it being a mismatch. That particular model of Luger has it's own appeal just for that reason. Be aware, however, that there are people who rely solely on the numbers on a pistol to determine if it is "all matching" or not. Some will use that criteria as the only indicator and, as they see more Lugers and read more books, will realize that there are many exceptions to all the conventions. If you are paying a premium for a matching, original pistol and you have doubts then it is always better to pass on it (if it is really important to you). Same goes if you are selling a pistol that you aren't sure about (don't make that argument that you know it is 'correct' if you are not sure). Enjoy the hobby.

Thor · 06-09-2001, 02:54 PM

Very True about the sunlight Bill, no wonder gun shows are inside and have poor lighting! The sun can tell you lots of things about a guns finish! A knock down, out of this world 98% gun inside might be disappointing outside in the sunlight! ~Thor~

Johnny Peppers · 06-09-2001, 03:20 PM

Just take a Mini-Maglite to the gunshow with you. The high intensity bulb will shine right through the blueing, and will really highlight the differences in color of the blue. The light also makes the "halo" around the serial numbers pop out. It will also bring out any imperfections under the blue which any 60 to 100 year old Luger will have if still in original finish. A gripstrap that looks 99% in normal light will have all sorts of imperfections in it when viewed with the Mini-Mag.

Thor · 06-09-2001, 04:08 PM

Great info Johnny TANKS A BUNCH! thor

Hugh · 06-10-2001, 10:22 AM

I have two borelights on my table at gunshows. The one with the new batteries is my "buying light", the one with the almost dead batteries is my "selling Light"

06-09-2001, 04:11 AM	#1
DAVID User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Debary, FL. Posts: 129 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1923 Matching or not? with unnumbered forward toggle. Thanks for any opinions

06-09-2001, 11:59 AM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: 1923 Matching or not? Is the breech block proofed in the normal place? I would say that it would be a later replacement if it is not numbered. Is the pistol in question serial numbered in the standard continuation of the original commercial serial number range, or after the letter suffix was initiated?

06-09-2001, 12:10 PM	#3
DAVID User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Debary, FL. Posts: 129 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1923 Matching or not? I am not talking about the breachblock. But the forward toggle with the DWM marking. The DWM marked part is proofed on the left side with the horizontal crown N. The pistol is a 5 digit serial. There is no number on the bottom of this part which matches the last two digits of the serial. there is a single number 8 which looks an inspection mark.

06-09-2001, 02:32 PM	#4
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1923 Matching or not? David, the M1923, according to Jan Still's 'Weimar Lugers' shows up with a variety of parts and pieces that may or may not be stamped since, for the most part, they were factory 'parts' guns. I would take the pistol into some really bright light (maybe outside) and look at the finish. If the bluing, the wear, the luster, any brownish or reddish patina under the bluing (noticeable at the breaks of the sharp edges) is all consistant with the rest of the pistol, I would not worry about it being a mismatch. That particular model of Luger has it's own appeal just for that reason. Be aware, however, that there are people who rely solely on the numbers on a pistol to determine if it is "all matching" or not. Some will use that criteria as the only indicator and, as they see more Lugers and read more books, will realize that there are many exceptions to all the conventions. If you are paying a premium for a matching, original pistol and you have doubts then it is always better to pass on it (if it is really important to you). Same goes if you are selling a pistol that you aren't sure about (don't make that argument that you know it is 'correct' if you are not sure). Enjoy the hobby.

06-09-2001, 02:54 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Bluing in Sunlight! Very True about the sunlight Bill, no wonder gun shows are inside and have poor lighting! The sun can tell you lots of things about a guns finish! A knock down, out of this world 98% gun inside might be disappointing outside in the sunlight! ~Thor~

06-09-2001, 03:20 PM	#6
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Bluing in Sunlight! Just take a Mini-Maglite to the gunshow with you. The high intensity bulb will shine right through the blueing, and will really highlight the differences in color of the blue. The light also makes the "halo" around the serial numbers pop out. It will also bring out any imperfections under the blue which any 60 to 100 year old Luger will have if still in original finish. A gripstrap that looks 99% in normal light will have all sorts of imperfections in it when viewed with the Mini-Mag.

06-09-2001, 04:08 PM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Bluing in Sunlight! Great info Johnny TANKS A BUNCH! thor

06-10-2001, 10:22 AM	#8
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Bluing in Sunlight! I have two borelights on my table at gunshows. The one with the new batteries is my "buying light", the one with the almost dead batteries is my "selling Light"