Found Luger

wvreilly · 08-19-2004, 02:41 PM

I am looking for information on a Luger that my husband had removed from a German Officer prisoner of war in WWII. I showed it to my son-in-law and he suggested that I search the Web for information. The gun and holster is all together and I will try to describe it with numbers I have found on the gun. I would appreciate any information you can give me.
Holster - xxxxx(?) & Borns (I can't really read it all) in a half circle with "Hanover" below and "1936". Has clip on side in small pocket with the number "9030" and something below I can't read. Stitching is all o.k. - no fraying, etc. Inside is a place for a small instrument and it's there, but I don't know what it's for.
Gun - in excellent condition. My brother said he borrowed it many years ago and fired it - so it apparently still works! It has been wrapped in a soft cloth in holster for many years. Top of barrel has "1939" (year?) with "42" down a little further. The serial number (I think) is the number "7689" no letter in front. All other parts seem to be marked "89". Toward the back of the barrel are two marks, then a bird. Under the two marks are the number "655". The clip in the gun is marked "2" and then under that the number "1291. Also has a bird with a circle with "X" in the center and a "C".
Is this enough information to find out about the gun?

John Sabato · 08-19-2004, 02:59 PM

wvreilly

welcome to the Lugerforum. Your husband's Luger was produced by Mauser (code 42 on the toggle) in the year 1939. It is a relatively common military Luger and a good one.

The instrument in the small pocket of the holster is a screwdriver for removal of the grips, and the tool is also used to make loading the magazine a little easier by putting the hole in the tool over the button on the side of the magazine and using it to compress the spring while loading ammuntion. The magazine should hold 8 rounds.

The gun appears to be all matching numbers which is good, but the magazines are from other Lugers...

The entire "rig" consisting of the gun, holster, magazines and tool are worth roughly $1000 to $1400 or MORE depending on the actual condition of the components... and condition is somewhat subjective... If you could post photographs of the pieces it would be helpful in placing a current market value on the rig... My recommendation is to keep the gun in your family as an heirloom and a piece of family and World history, because once it is gone, you will never get it back... and someday some grandchild will discover that Granddad brought home and Luger from WW2 ... and be saddened that someone sold it...

If the WV in your name indicates that you are from West Virginia, let me know... I live near the VA/WV border and could possibly see the gun in person if you are not too far away...

If we can be of further assistance, please let us know.

RockinWR · 08-19-2004, 07:39 PM

Weldeen,
* My welcome to the Lugerforum as well.
* Your holster was likely made by the firm Ruffel & Borns of the city, Hannover in 1936. Usually, in the near vacinity of the maker's stamp, is an Army Inspector's acceptance stamp. This consists of an eagle surmounting a globe encircling a swastika. This over the Heereswaffenamt ID stamp of WaA###. The Army inspection team covering the Hannover area was WaA330 during the 1936 time frame.
* Both mags once belonged to other Lugers as they do not bear the same number/suffix letter block of your pistol. The "1291" mag likely once belonged to a Police issued luger made approximately the same time as your Mauser Army pistol; ie late 1939.
* Pictures of the many styles of lower case alpha letters used in conjunction with the S/N's can be found in the Technical Information" section of this Forum if you entered with the URL http://www.lugerform.com
* Clear digital or scanned pictures of the unidentifiable marks you mentioned, posted into this thread, would aid us all in providng you additional information on your pistol rig.
Respectfully,
Bob

G.W. Gill · 08-20-2004, 03:34 AM

A family heirloom to be sure. Please write what your Beloved Husband told you on a piece of paper and enclose it with the handgun. It is not something that you would put into the china cabinet. The drawers underneath would be fine. Smear the pistol in vasoline and check it every once in a while. It could be looked at by a hunter friend or relative. Keep it with the Family silver. Not a fortune, just very nice. Leave the leather alone!!!Don't do any thing to it!! Your Great Grandkids will be enthralled!! NO AMMUNITION IN YOUR HOUSE!!! I just had to say that. You are so very fortunate, and we are Proud of your Husband. Our best to you and yours...

John Sabato · 08-20-2004, 12:33 PM

I would add two notes to G.W.Gill's comments. I would fill the holster with bubble-wrap... just enough to hold it's shape. and place a folded piece through the belt loops to keep their shape otherwise they might harded flat and be unusable as it ages... put NOTHING on the grips... as they will soak up anything that you put on them... and once again... if you have any additional questions about your Luger, don't hesitate to ask here...

wvreilly · 08-20-2004, 12:41 PM

Thank you all so much for helping me understand where this Luger comes from!!! I now know more about the gun than I do about my children! This certainly has been a most helpful place to go - so many people interested, dedicated and helpful! I thank you again for all your information. Incidentally - to Mr. Sabato - we live in California!

John Sabato · 08-20-2004, 12:57 PM

You are quite welcome... all that we ask in return is that you take care that you and your heirs do your best to preserve this small piece of history...

California is farther than I can get during my lunch hour

but we have many members in California, if you choose to name the city where you are located, I am sure at least one may offer to assist and advise you in person...

PLEASE CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES by clicking on the My Profile link at the top of the page.

Best Regards,

John

minigun · 08-23-2004, 02:40 AM

Interesting as can be....
Just wish pics could be added.

wvreilly · 08-26-2004, 11:44 PM

Soon as I can get my daughter to photograph the Luger and holster with her camera, I will definitely post it on the Forum. Thanks again to all of you for the great information.

Lee123 · 09-14-2004, 03:35 PM

Hi! My name is Lee and I live in Kansas City. A few years ago a good friend of mine passed away and he left me his firearms. Among the pieces was a P.O8 Lange pistole. There was also a 2nd type drum mag and loading tool. Apparently this gun was brought back as a trophy and like many items brought back it most likely languished in a drawre somewhere for years. The guy who brought it back also thought it would look cool or something if he had it nickel plated. I hate the look but I figure that the plating just might have actually saved the gun from rusting away over the years. It's a 1917 DWM make with all matching numbers that are crisp under the plating. The bore is a bit dark but the lands and grooves are sharp and deep. It took me about a year to get the rest of the kit from various places and now it is complete. I have bought extra parts whenever I found them and could afford them. When I shoot 9mm with it I use non matching parts like the extractor and firing pin I've bought so that I won't hurt the guns value if I break them. I also found and bought a six inch barrel that was in pretty rough exterior shape and the bore was gone. This I had cleaned up and reamed out to accept a conversion kit made by Erma so I could slip it on the reciever and shoot .22cal and save the 9mm arty barrel from too much use. I'm thinking about having the plating removed and getting the gun re-blued. I've visited Ralph's website often but never registered to get inside. I'm glad I did! There is a ton of knowledge here to make use of. I will be around.

Thor · 09-14-2004, 04:35 PM

Lee, if you decide to have the restoration done, please consider us. We specilize in this type of work.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TLSS_banner.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TLSS_banner.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Lee123 · 09-15-2004, 09:48 AM

Thor, That is exactly what I was hoping to do. As with most of us it's a matter of setting aside the funds to have it done. If I sent you the piece would you give me an estimate of how much it will cost and if you consider it worth doing? I'd much appreciate it.

Lee

Thor · 09-15-2004, 10:24 AM

Sure thing Lee, please send me an email at Thor340@aol.com! Thanks!

Lee123 · 09-15-2004, 01:00 PM

Thor, I just went to your very impressive website. Your prices are very reasonable and the examples of before/after projects have convinced me that It would be foolish for me to consider having anyone else do the conservation work my gun needs. It may be just another 'shooter' but it's going to be a damn fine one after you get done with it. I will be in touch with you soon.

Lee

Thor · 09-15-2004, 02:04 PM

Lee, thanks so much for the kind words. I put a few more pictures on this thread (click on link) that are NOT shown on my website! I look forward to working on your restoration Luger project. Thor Restoration Projects Click Here

08-19-2004, 02:41 PM	#1
wvreilly New User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Found Luger I am looking for information on a Luger that my husband had removed from a German Officer prisoner of war in WWII. I showed it to my son-in-law and he suggested that I search the Web for information. The gun and holster is all together and I will try to describe it with numbers I have found on the gun. I would appreciate any information you can give me. Holster - xxxxx(?) & Borns (I can't really read it all) in a half circle with "Hanover" below and "1936". Has clip on side in small pocket with the number "9030" and something below I can't read. Stitching is all o.k. - no fraying, etc. Inside is a place for a small instrument and it's there, but I don't know what it's for. Gun - in excellent condition. My brother said he borrowed it many years ago and fired it - so it apparently still works! It has been wrapped in a soft cloth in holster for many years. Top of barrel has "1939" (year?) with "42" down a little further. The serial number (I think) is the number "7689" no letter in front. All other parts seem to be marked "89". Toward the back of the barrel are two marks, then a bird. Under the two marks are the number "655". The clip in the gun is marked "2" and then under that the number "1291. Also has a bird with a circle with "X" in the center and a "C". Is this enough information to find out about the gun?

08-19-2004, 02:59 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	wvreilly welcome to the Lugerforum. Your husband's Luger was produced by Mauser (code 42 on the toggle) in the year 1939. It is a relatively common military Luger and a good one. The instrument in the small pocket of the holster is a screwdriver for removal of the grips, and the tool is also used to make loading the magazine a little easier by putting the hole in the tool over the button on the side of the magazine and using it to compress the spring while loading ammuntion. The magazine should hold 8 rounds. The gun appears to be all matching numbers which is good, but the magazines are from other Lugers... The entire "rig" consisting of the gun, holster, magazines and tool are worth roughly $1000 to $1400 or MORE depending on the actual condition of the components... and condition is somewhat subjective... If you could post photographs of the pieces it would be helpful in placing a current market value on the rig... My recommendation is to keep the gun in your family as an heirloom and a piece of family and World history, because once it is gone, you will never get it back... and someday some grandchild will discover that Granddad brought home and Luger from WW2 ... and be saddened that someone sold it... If the WV in your name indicates that you are from West Virginia, let me know... I live near the VA/WV border and could possibly see the gun in person if you are not too far away... If we can be of further assistance, please let us know. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-20-2004, 12:33 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I would add two notes to G.W.Gill's comments. I would fill the holster with bubble-wrap... just enough to hold it's shape. and place a folded piece through the belt loops to keep their shape otherwise they might harded flat and be unusable as it ages... put NOTHING on the grips... as they will soak up anything that you put on them... and once again... if you have any additional questions about your Luger, don't hesitate to ask here... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-20-2004, 12:57 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	You are quite welcome... all that we ask in return is that you take care that you and your heirs do your best to preserve this small piece of history... California is farther than I can get during my lunch hour but we have many members in California, if you choose to name the city where you are located, I am sure at least one may offer to assist and advise you in person... PLEASE CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES by clicking on the My Profile link at the top of the page. Best Regards, John __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-14-2004, 04:35 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Lee, if you decide to have the restoration done, please consider us. We specilize in this type of work. <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TLSS_banner.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TLSS_banner.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-19-2004, 07:39 PM	#3
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Weldeen, * My welcome to the Lugerforum as well. * Your holster was likely made by the firm Ruffel & Borns of the city, Hannover in 1936. Usually, in the near vacinity of the maker's stamp, is an Army Inspector's acceptance stamp. This consists of an eagle surmounting a globe encircling a swastika. This over the Heereswaffenamt ID stamp of WaA###. The Army inspection team covering the Hannover area was WaA330 during the 1936 time frame. * Both mags once belonged to other Lugers as they do not bear the same number/suffix letter block of your pistol. The "1291" mag likely once belonged to a Police issued luger made approximately the same time as your Mauser Army pistol; ie late 1939. * Pictures of the many styles of lower case alpha letters used in conjunction with the S/N's can be found in the Technical Information" section of this Forum if you entered with the URL http://www.lugerform.com * Clear digital or scanned pictures of the unidentifiable marks you mentioned, posted into this thread, would aid us all in providng you additional information on your pistol rig. Respectfully, Bob

08-20-2004, 03:34 AM	#4
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A family heirloom to be sure. Please write what your Beloved Husband told you on a piece of paper and enclose it with the handgun. It is not something that you would put into the china cabinet. The drawers underneath would be fine. Smear the pistol in vasoline and check it every once in a while. It could be looked at by a hunter friend or relative. Keep it with the Family silver. Not a fortune, just very nice. Leave the leather alone!!!Don't do any thing to it!! Your Great Grandkids will be enthralled!! NO AMMUNITION IN YOUR HOUSE!!! I just had to say that. You are so very fortunate, and we are Proud of your Husband. Our best to you and yours...

08-20-2004, 12:41 PM	#6
wvreilly New User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you all so much for helping me understand where this Luger comes from!!! I now know more about the gun than I do about my children! This certainly has been a most helpful place to go - so many people interested, dedicated and helpful! I thank you again for all your information. Incidentally - to Mr. Sabato - we live in California!

08-23-2004, 02:40 AM	#8
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	Interesting as can be.... Just wish pics could be added.

08-26-2004, 11:44 PM	#9
wvreilly New User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Soon as I can get my daughter to photograph the Luger and holster with her camera, I will definitely post it on the Forum. Thanks again to all of you for the great information.

09-14-2004, 03:35 PM	#10
Lee123 User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi! My name is Lee and I live in Kansas City. A few years ago a good friend of mine passed away and he left me his firearms. Among the pieces was a P.O8 Lange pistole. There was also a 2nd type drum mag and loading tool. Apparently this gun was brought back as a trophy and like many items brought back it most likely languished in a drawre somewhere for years. The guy who brought it back also thought it would look cool or something if he had it nickel plated. I hate the look but I figure that the plating just might have actually saved the gun from rusting away over the years. It's a 1917 DWM make with all matching numbers that are crisp under the plating. The bore is a bit dark but the lands and grooves are sharp and deep. It took me about a year to get the rest of the kit from various places and now it is complete. I have bought extra parts whenever I found them and could afford them. When I shoot 9mm with it I use non matching parts like the extractor and firing pin I've bought so that I won't hurt the guns value if I break them. I also found and bought a six inch barrel that was in pretty rough exterior shape and the bore was gone. This I had cleaned up and reamed out to accept a conversion kit made by Erma so I could slip it on the reciever and shoot .22cal and save the 9mm arty barrel from too much use. I'm thinking about having the plating removed and getting the gun re-blued. I've visited Ralph's website often but never registered to get inside. I'm glad I did! There is a ton of knowledge here to make use of. I will be around.

09-15-2004, 09:48 AM	#12
Lee123 User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, That is exactly what I was hoping to do. As with most of us it's a matter of setting aside the funds to have it done. If I sent you the piece would you give me an estimate of how much it will cost and if you consider it worth doing? I'd much appreciate it. Lee

09-15-2004, 10:24 AM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Sure thing Lee, please send me an email at Thor340@aol.com! Thanks! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-15-2004, 01:00 PM	#14
Lee123 User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, I just went to your very impressive website. Your prices are very reasonable and the examples of before/after projects have convinced me that It would be foolish for me to consider having anyone else do the conservation work my gun needs. It may be just another 'shooter' but it's going to be a damn fine one after you get done with it. I will be in touch with you soon. Lee

09-15-2004, 02:04 PM	#15
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Lee, thanks so much for the kind words. I put a few more pictures on this thread (click on link) that are NOT shown on my website! I look forward to working on your restoration Luger project. Thor Restoration Projects Click Here __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."