Why did this junk go so high, any thought?

alvin · 10-31-2009, 03:25 PM

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=144635776

Even harder to understand -- such a great bid cannot reach the "reserve". Are bidder and seller the same person playing self-entertaining game? Any thought?

Look up calendar again. Today's Holloween, not April 1st.

Ice · 10-31-2009, 03:39 PM

Interesting. I have often wondered if some of the cutaways seen at the gunshows were the product of an enterprising American machinist taking a junk pistol and turning it into a "rare factory artifact".

Charlie

sheepherder · 10-31-2009, 06:17 PM

Except for the ridiculous wire frame stock, it looks to be very well done...very overpriced, but good work...Nice bluing, some polished and some satin parts...

I'm curious as to why he says "No License Required"...The barrel appears to be intact/uncut (unlike some C96 cutaways I've seen pics of) and it is possible it could fire a round...(not safely, but the BATF does not care about that, only function)...

Maybe bore is plugged...

Edward Tinker · 10-31-2009, 06:23 PM

Good cutaways are expensive.

I would love to have one in a luger; and the ones i have seen for other guns are over $1000 and up...

Ed

saab-bob · 10-31-2009, 06:23 PM

Hard to believe it did not sell for $1700.00.

It sure reminds me of something Federal Ordnance would have done. Did they have someone on staff who could write in Chinese?

Bob

sheepherder · 10-31-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saab-bob

It sure reminds me of something Federal Ordnance would have done.

That thought also struck me as well...But IIRC the Fed-Ord carbines had a Schnabel-like fore end and a wood stock that attached with a tongue-and-groove, like this one appears to have...

This one appears to have at least two different bluings, and is quite well machined (unlike some Chinese C96's)...

alvin · 10-31-2009, 07:56 PM

This thing used a German gun as a base. The concept is not far away from the advanced laser pistol in the movie "Star War".

Looks to me the upper receiver's base was an Early 1930, barrel was cut away and replace with this longer one. See that bolt stop position, that's 1930 style. Why would someone install such a ugly long pipe was unclear... probably need a 16"+ barrel to attach that funny stock and avoid ATF registration.

The hammer and lock frame style point to earlier gun. Probably a Bolo, or Wartime, highly polished with sand paper. Probably used some Chinese replacement small parts.

The frame definitely came from a small ring, but it's hard to estimate the variation. The grip was cut away and replaced with this wired stock.

The Chinese characters on it basically says it's cut away in Nationalist era. Hehe

sheepherder · 10-31-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Why would someone install such a long pipe was unclear... probably need a 16"+ barrel to attach that funny stock and avoid ATF registration.

Description says 12" barrel...

Quote:

...highly polished with sand paper. That's not rocket science. I can do sanding.

Do you do refinishing??? I would be interested in seeing your work...I hate sanding/buffing/polishing...But since most of my latest interests are wartime mfg, then tool marks are acceptable (preferable IMO)...

The satin finish most likely comes from blasting...I do bead, sand, and walnut shell blasting, but again, it is not something seen on wartime weapons...

From the look of the contact arc of the safety, this cutaway has not been safed/cycled much, if at all...You would expect that a demonstration piece would have more handling marks than appears on this one...

What do the Chinese characters say???

suum cuique · 10-31-2009, 08:50 PM

here is a Luger cut away
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2465838

alvin · 10-31-2009, 08:51 PM

Good catch! I am thinking about why he could install a short barrel without violating the U.S. gun law. Probably because this thing is not fireable anyway. The description does not mention FFL/C&R, probably it's not counted as a firearm.

Refinish.... I did a few small items (not gun) for fun. Honestly described and sold to members here cheaply. I forgot who bought them. Currently nothing in hand. Run out of rust blue agent. Some fun in the process, not much. So I won't buy more agent anymore. $10 a bottle from Brownell back a few years ago.

There are a few groups of chars. The text on the left side of the stock attaching iron says "Used to Suppress Turmoil", roughly means this cut-away was used for anti-communism activities (how? scaring them using a cut away?). The text on the left side of the magazine well says "Made by 2nd Tong Guan Armorer". The text on the right of receiver says "Made in Tong Guan" (I cannot read reciever text clearly, could be wrong on receiver text)

Tong Guan. A town in northern China. See Google Map point "D".

Cristi · 11-01-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

I'm curious as to why he says "No License Required"...The barrel appears to be intact/uncut (unlike some C96 cutaways I've seen pics of) and it is possible it could fire a round...(not safely, but the BATF does not care about that, only function)...

Maybe bore is plugged...

2nd picture shows a cut chamber

sheepherder · 11-01-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristi

2nd picture shows a cut chamber

That's a negative. C96 chamber is farther forward of that cut - approximately where the receiver rail ends...It would still be possible to chamber and fire a round, assuming the breech is not blocked.

Edit: You are right; I am wrong. I was looking at area above rounds in magazine; I did not notice the round in the [cutaway] chamber until I downloaded the pic and lightened it. As you remarked, it only shows in pic # 2, and not too well.

You are much better at seeing details than I.

alvin · 11-01-2009, 02:45 PM

From the 2nd pix, the horizontal cut on the chamber is longer than 1". This piece is for illustration purpose, not for shooting. It's not shootable even without that cut on chamber, the strength of the cut away bolt is questionable, and shaking during firing may spill small parts out. For my shooting purpose, I won't pay more than $1k but I would require all matching and great bore, poor blue is OK. Also, for shooting, better be a German gun. Heard rumor saying Chinese copy's chamber may explode (rumor, I have never acquired one of those so rumor only. Quality varies for sure)

worldoftone · 11-01-2009, 04:35 PM

All the German C-96s I have shot are solid.

- WOT

10-31-2009, 03:25 PM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Why did this junk go so high, any thought? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=144635776 Even harder to understand -- such a great bid cannot reach the "reserve". Are bidder and seller the same person playing self-entertaining game? Any thought? Look up calendar again. Today's Holloween, not April 1st.

10-31-2009, 06:23 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Good cutaways are expensive. I would love to have one in a luger; and the ones i have seen for other guns are over $1000 and up... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-31-2009, 06:23 PM	#5
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Hard to believe it did not sell for $1700.00. It sure reminds me of something Federal Ordnance would have done. Did they have someone on staff who could write in Chinese? Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-31-2009, 08:50 PM	#9
suum cuique User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: MD / Currently about 9000 klicks east of the Potomac Posts: 497 Thanks: 100 Thanked 47 Times in 35 Posts	Luger cut away here is a Luger cut away http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2465838 __________________ Regards, Andy There's No Place Like Home (Wizard Of Oz)

10-31-2009, 08:51 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Good catch! I am thinking about why he could install a short barrel without violating the U.S. gun law. Probably because this thing is not fireable anyway. The description does not mention FFL/C&R, probably it's not counted as a firearm. Refinish.... I did a few small items (not gun) for fun. Honestly described and sold to members here cheaply. I forgot who bought them. Currently nothing in hand. Run out of rust blue agent. Some fun in the process, not much. So I won't buy more agent anymore. $10 a bottle from Brownell back a few years ago. There are a few groups of chars. The text on the left side of the stock attaching iron says "Used to Suppress Turmoil", roughly means this cut-away was used for anti-communism activities (how? scaring them using a cut away?). The text on the left side of the magazine well says "Made by 2nd Tong Guan Armorer". The text on the right of receiver says "Made in Tong Guan" (I cannot read reciever text clearly, could be wrong on receiver text) Tong Guan. A town in northern China. See Google Map point "D". Attached Thumbnails

10-31-2009, 03:39 PM	#2
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Interesting. I have often wondered if some of the cutaways seen at the gunshows were the product of an enterprising American machinist taking a junk pistol and turning it into a "rare factory artifact". Charlie

10-31-2009, 06:17 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Except for the ridiculous wire frame stock, it looks to be very well done...very overpriced, but good work...Nice bluing, some polished and some satin parts... I'm curious as to why he says "No License Required"...The barrel appears to be intact/uncut (unlike some C96 cutaways I've seen pics of) and it is possible it could fire a round...(not safely, but the BATF does not care about that, only function)... Maybe bore is plugged...

10-31-2009, 07:56 PM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	This thing used a German gun as a base. The concept is not far away from the advanced laser pistol in the movie "Star War". Looks to me the upper receiver's base was an Early 1930, barrel was cut away and replace with this longer one. See that bolt stop position, that's 1930 style. Why would someone install such a ugly long pipe was unclear... probably need a 16"+ barrel to attach that funny stock and avoid ATF registration. The hammer and lock frame style point to earlier gun. Probably a Bolo, or Wartime, highly polished with sand paper. Probably used some Chinese replacement small parts. The frame definitely came from a small ring, but it's hard to estimate the variation. The grip was cut away and replaced with this wired stock. The Chinese characters on it basically says it's cut away in Nationalist era. Hehe

11-01-2009, 02:45 PM	#13
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	From the 2nd pix, the horizontal cut on the chamber is longer than 1". This piece is for illustration purpose, not for shooting. It's not shootable even without that cut on chamber, the strength of the cut away bolt is questionable, and shaking during firing may spill small parts out. For my shooting purpose, I won't pay more than $1k but I would require all matching and great bore, poor blue is OK. Also, for shooting, better be a German gun. Heard rumor saying Chinese copy's chamber may explode (rumor, I have never acquired one of those so rumor only. Quality varies for sure)

11-01-2009, 04:35 PM	#14
worldoftone User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 81 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	All the German C-96s I have shot are solid. - WOT