Re-barrel Luger Shooter

[gvt1911]

Have a mis matched Luger shooter grade that I would like to have a new barrel installed...Original barrel is pretty "rough"...Since I am an old newbie, I can use some guidance...
Thanks in advance...
I would need the new barrel and someone to do the exchange properly since I intend to shoot it...

[Edward Tinker]

welcome to the forum - I made it so you'd get notified

A barrel is easy to find, they are on ebay for $50-$200 - depending on condition, length, etc.

9mm is the cheapest to shoot, of course you can find 7.65mm (30 luger) barrels because of that easier.

Any barrel I have had GT or Lugerdoc put it on for me, it can be slightly tricky I have been told.


Ed

[gvt1911]

Thank you for the info...I will search for a replacement barrel now...Good to know that I can have it done...

[DavidJayUden]

Regarding the "rough" barrel you now have installed, it seems to be the consensus around here that a barrel can look pretty bad and still shoot quite well. My point is to determine for sure that you need a new barrel before going to expense of buying a new barrel and having it installed. A bore that looks less-than-new is not necessarily the same thing as needing a new barrel to shoot well.
dju

[gvt1911]

dju,
I agree with you 100%...I have another Luger that has the original barrel and it shoots well...This barrel is on a mismatched imported marked shooter and looks like a "sewer" pipe...Since I am going to shoot it, I am thinking about replacing the barrel with a new one which will also get rid of that import stamp on the underside...I hate to do it since the number on the barrel matches the upper receiver, but all other numbers got the hammer and punch and can no longer be read...I will think on it while awaiting the new mainspring to arrive from Wolff...

[ithacaartist]

Joe,

One thing to keep in mind is that there is a difference between barrels for "new model" frames and earlier Lugers. Amounting to approx 0.10", the difference occurs in the front of the frame and, correspondingly, in the length of the threaded portion of the bbls. Note that Maser Parabellums made in the 70s have the longer units because they're based on the Swiss-patterned frames. Before committing to a purchase, check out this aspect first!

[gvt1911]

Thanks for the info..The luger I have is a 1940 model and the old shot out barrel and upper receiver are matched with the same number...I really hate to remove it, but inside is "BAD" and has the St. Albans VT. import stamp on the underside...
I will make a note on the differences as I heard tale of something similar before...

[rhuff]

I have to ask.....have you taken this Luger to the range and fired some ammo through this barrel?? Many of us on this forum own Lugers with "sewer pipe bores", and are amazed at the accuracy that these old barrels produce. I am not trying to talk you out of a barrel change, just offering an alternative.

[gvt1911]

Honestly, I have yet to see how accurate it can shoot...I was just so turned off that I paid a high dollar and it had a bore this bad with an import mark to boot...I always wanted a "bull" barrel Luger and GT states he has some in stock...After my new mainspring comes in, I will see how good it can shoot...

[rhuff]

For sure get what you want....life is too short to be unhappy if you can correct the problem!! I can personally recommend GT for Luger work, as can many on this forum. He is our "go to guy" for Luger mag work, barrel changes, plus other things....plus being a stand up fella!!

[Edward Tinker]

Bull Barrels made by GT

NOTE-if your numbers are x'd out, the collector value is gone. That is a sign usually of a east german rework

but pictures would help, full left, full right of each...

[4 Scale]

I have also been surprised at how accurate a poor bore can be, but believe it can be explained. My theory is, bore wear and corrosion tend to be fairly uniform around the circumference of the barrel due to the nature of the causes. The net result of either wear or corrosion is the removal of metal; i.e. nothing is added to the bore that can obstruct or alter the path of the projectile.

Calling a poor bore a "sewer pipe" while understandable I think does not capture the technical issue. What's repulsive about a genuine 'sewer pipe' is the residual substance. A worn and corroded "sewer pipe" Luger bore got that way because its original material was removed in a pattern that we perceive as ugly. By definition no additional material has been added to such bores. Rust is not an addition, by definition it is a transformation and a net subtraction in terms of mass.

And - due to the length of the bullet in relation to the relatively small size of individual corrosion patches such as pits, the corrosion itself will not degrade the bullet path or its spin. For the same reason, even in poor bores, gas cannot escape in sufficient quantity to decrease bullet velocity.

Phrased differently, as long as you can see rifling it doesn't matter how worn and corroded the bore is, it will be accurate.

I've thought about this a lot as I used to shoot rifles in target competition when younger and was trained to keep the bore scrupulously clean. Because of my "clean bore" heritage when I began collecting Lugers I shunned those with poor bores, sort of like the member who started this thread. Along the way I found a Luger with the notorious "sewer pipe" bore, at a price I couldn't resist, and was amazed at the accuracy.

Sorry for the long post - I invite challenges or corrections to this theory, just trying to understand how poor bores can be so accurate.

[DonVoigt]

In my first Garand, the last 4" of rifling were gone in the bbl, but it shot just fine and was as "accurate" as I could shoot; and that was years ago when I could see the sights and target at the same time.

A bad/damaged crown is a bigger problem than a worn or corroded bore, IMO.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

I have also been surprised at how accurate a poor bore can be, but believe it can be explained. My theory is, poor bores are caused by use (wear) and corrosion.

I invite challenges or corrections to this theory.

I offer neither. I do offer more information...

A Luger typically is marked with an 8,82mm [.347"] designation. That is a land dimension. A 9mm bullet is .355" diameter. That gives roughly a .004" - .005" depth of rifling groove. It would be reasonable to assume that the land would wear more rapidly than the groove (it is subjected to pressure/friction more than the groove). So the land can wear significantly more without affecting gyroscopic stability or velocity. Which equals accuracy.

...In theory...

To put this in perspective for non-machinists, a sheet of ruled notebook paper is .004" thick. I use pieces of notebook paper for my metalworking.

[gvt1911]

Thanks for all the info...Everyone has been very helpful...I guess I should have not called it a 'sewer pipe' bore , instead I should have said that because of the corrosive ammo, the bore is heavily pitted...Since it is a rework and the collector value is nill, I personally would like to have the barrel changed out...After looking around on the web for barrels, I would love to have a bull barrel installed...GT has some in stock...It should turn out very nice...I love all the technical info and appreciate it ...I tried to post pictures with no luck, normally I can download them from my camera...???
Regards to all...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by gvt1911

I tried to post pictures with no luck, normally I can download them from my camera...???

Copy & save them to your HDD and then attach them to your post. Quick & dirty HowTo at -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23172

I have sometimes wondered if a poor condition bore could be "beautified" by swabbing it repeatedly with a cleaning patch soaked/impregnated with Simichrome Polish...Can't hurt, and might make it prettier...

[gvt1911]

Thanks for the info on posting pics... Yes I sometimes "polish" the bore with lapping compound, it looks better but pits are still there...
Regards

[rhuff]

One nice thing about sewer pipe/pitted and corroded bores is that one doesn't have to spend a lot of time trying to get it 100% clean and shiny, as that is just not going to happen!!

[gvt1911]

OK, Got the pics up !!!

[Olle]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I have sometimes wondered if a poor condition bore could be "beautified" by swabbing it repeatedly with a cleaning patch soaked/impregnated with Simichrome Polish...Can't hurt, and might make it prettier...

I think just shooting it would be the best way, but I have tried to "pretty up" some bore that were beyond shooter grade. I have even tried valve lapping compound on an extra rough one, but it's really a waste of time. Even if you get them nice and shiny inside, you won't see much of a difference when you look through it. It will still be rough, just a shinier rough.