Navy rear toggle

Jaime Allan · 02-06-2003, 03:47 AM

I was wondering if anyone knows where I can buy a Navy rear toggle with the 100-200 Meter adjustment? Mr. Tom Heller said someone was manufacturing them in Europe,any idea's. Thanks for your time. Jaime

Dwight Gruber · 02-06-2003, 04:47 AM

Here is a...

Navy rear toggle on Ebay

--Dwight

Jaime Allan · 02-06-2003, 03:48 PM

Thanks Dwight, it just a little more than I anticipated. I wonder if I could get a machinist to duplicate one cheaper?

Luke · 02-08-2003, 01:11 AM

The one on eBay went for $440.00!

Now I wonder where it will wind up.

Luke

Big Norm · 02-08-2003, 11:36 PM

Jamie,
if you think that $440 is more than you think that you would like to pay for an original navy sight, than you should think about what we guys think after we spent $3000 to buy an original navy Luger and then hear that you and Mr. Heller are talking about the purchase of counterfeit navy sights.
Big Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 02-09-2003, 05:45 AM

Jamie, I think you should familiarize yourself with prices charged by machinists in this modern age. $440.00 will seem like the bargain of the century when one quotes you a price to re-produce a German Navy Luger sight. If you are only needing one you missed it on Ebay. If, indeed, as Big Norm indicates you wish to make many of them then you will get a big surprise when you hook up with a machinist capable of making them.I had a fellow make up some front sight adjusters for me, to push over the dovetailed front sight on a Luger and even this simple piece cost over $100.00 Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 02-09-2003, 03:40 PM

Hello Norm,

Last year Tom Heller had for sale a "Navy" he had made up.

This was no counterfeit gun. Tom always advertised it as a made-up gun, And there is no mistaking this gun was a "real" Navy.

I think Tom provides a good service to folks that might want to shoot a "Navy" but cannot afford one or do not want to risk shooting a real Navy they might have.

I think Tom and other craftsmem like him provide a service to meet a need out in the luger world for folks that want the fun of a Navy without the money involved or the risks of shooting a real Navy.

With the info. available for folks to read and learn from, real Navy's and made-up ones should not be difficult spot...

Just MHO...

Respectfully,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Thor · 02-09-2003, 04:02 PM

Pete, I have always found the Navy a great variation and would certainly rather have a built up shooter to fire than spend the cash for an original one to just look at! I like seeing the originals, but I will leave those to people that can afford them, I would love to see Tom and Derek's Navy Display. I bet it is awesome!

Big Norm · 02-13-2003, 11:24 PM

Last month I went to a gunshow and a guy had a tag on a Luger for only $2000. I looked at the gun and realized that if was a rare 1906 commericial in good shape. The only thing was that the gun had its rear sight replaced with a military fixed rear sight. I asked the guy why the gun was missing the rear sight? He responded in a very huffy manner: "Well I was able to get $500 for that sight on Ebay". Duh! I responded "You mean that you cheapened that gun by $1500 plus because you could sell the sight for $500? Is that some sort of new math or something?". The guy did not respond and moved to another part of his large table.

This is the sort of thinking that occurs with dealers who only think of the Luger as something to make a quick buck off of. I don't see where there is any craftsmanship in copying someone elses work for the sake of having a cheap knock off that can be sold for big bucks. These guns are not just something to look at. They are examples of true craftmanship in an age where computers where not grinding out thousands of ill fitting pistol pieces. They are historical artifacts as well as investments and not just something to view.

I looked that the navy sight that was for sale. Because it was in such good shape, I wondered if it came off of some stolen gun. I don't know, but I have thought that on a number of simular sights that I have seen. Too often I think that these parts are in too good a condition to come off of a junker gun. Then again, if we go back to my first paragraph, this may be the new American way of thinking.
Big Norm

Jaime Allan · 03-04-2003, 09:50 PM

Wow, its been about a month since I visited the forum and did not expect to see so many responses. I live in Mooresville NC, the stock car racing capital of the world. Quite a few of my friends work for different race teams. So, I took an original Navy toggle and a standard rear toggle to my neighbor a 21yr old fabricator for a Nascar team. Within two weeks of tinkering on his breaks he completed an almost exact copy. All my friend wanted for his trouble was a case of Hamms. I don't really like the idea of polluting the luger population with replicated parts; however is't part of collecting being able to discern altered from original ie. blueing, matching #'s. The only reason I wanted the Navy toggle was to put on a Martz Luger, which is an adaptation form an original anyway. Thanks for all the interesting input, I guess nobody did know of the source of European replicator. Best regards Jaime

Dwight Gruber · 03-04-2003, 10:23 PM

Jaime, any chance you can post a picture?

--Dwight

John Sabato · 03-05-2003, 07:54 AM

Yes Jaime, Please post a photo of your friends work in duplicating a Navy rear toggle. This is a formidable task! I know several machinists and gunsmiths and none would even attempt it.

Lugerdoc · 03-05-2003, 09:50 AM

Jaime, Nice that you could find someone already on someone else's payroll to do the job. If he was having to make a living from his hourly labor, I doubt that he would have been able to do it for a case of beer. I used to know a gunsmith who would use UAL's million dollar EDM equiptment to Magnaport barrels. Obviously, he is no longer employed by them. Tom H.

02-06-2003, 03:47 AM	#1
Jaime Allan User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Navy rear toggle I was wondering if anyone knows where I can buy a Navy rear toggle with the 100-200 Meter adjustment? Mr. Tom Heller said someone was manufacturing them in Europe,any idea's. Thanks for your time. Jaime

02-08-2003, 01:11 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	The one on eBay went for $440.00! Now I wonder where it will wind up. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

02-09-2003, 05:45 AM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,768 Thanks: 4,896 Thanked 3,122 Times in 1,433 Posts	Jamie, I think you should familiarize yourself with prices charged by machinists in this modern age. $440.00 will seem like the bargain of the century when one quotes you a price to re-produce a German Navy Luger sight. If you are only needing one you missed it on Ebay. If, indeed, as Big Norm indicates you wish to make many of them then you will get a big surprise when you hook up with a machinist capable of making them.I had a fellow make up some front sight adjusters for me, to push over the dovetailed front sight on a Luger and even this simple piece cost over $100.00 Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-09-2003, 04:02 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Pete, I have always found the Navy a great variation and would certainly rather have a built up shooter to fire than spend the cash for an original one to just look at! I like seeing the originals, but I will leave those to people that can afford them, I would love to see Tom and Derek's Navy Display. I bet it is awesome! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-05-2003, 07:54 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Yes Jaime, Please post a photo of your friends work in duplicating a Navy rear toggle. This is a formidable task! I know several machinists and gunsmiths and none would even attempt it. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-06-2003, 04:47 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,894 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,289 Times in 426 Posts	Here is a... Navy rear toggle on Ebay --Dwight

02-06-2003, 03:48 PM	#3
Jaime Allan User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Dwight, it just a little more than I anticipated. I wonder if I could get a machinist to duplicate one cheaper?

02-08-2003, 11:36 PM	#5
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jamie, if you think that $440 is more than you think that you would like to pay for an original navy sight, than you should think about what we guys think after we spent $3000 to buy an original navy Luger and then hear that you and Mr. Heller are talking about the purchase of counterfeit navy sights. Big Norm

02-09-2003, 03:40 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Norm, Last year Tom Heller had for sale a "Navy" he had made up. This was no counterfeit gun. Tom always advertised it as a made-up gun, And there is no mistaking this gun was a "real" Navy. I think Tom provides a good service to folks that might want to shoot a "Navy" but cannot afford one or do not want to risk shooting a real Navy they might have. I think Tom and other craftsmem like him provide a service to meet a need out in the luger world for folks that want the fun of a Navy without the money involved or the risks of shooting a real Navy. With the info. available for folks to read and learn from, real Navy's and made-up ones should not be difficult spot... Just MHO... Respectfully, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

02-13-2003, 11:24 PM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Last month I went to a gunshow and a guy had a tag on a Luger for only $2000. I looked at the gun and realized that if was a rare 1906 commericial in good shape. The only thing was that the gun had its rear sight replaced with a military fixed rear sight. I asked the guy why the gun was missing the rear sight? He responded in a very huffy manner: "Well I was able to get $500 for that sight on Ebay". Duh! I responded "You mean that you cheapened that gun by $1500 plus because you could sell the sight for $500? Is that some sort of new math or something?". The guy did not respond and moved to another part of his large table. This is the sort of thinking that occurs with dealers who only think of the Luger as something to make a quick buck off of. I don't see where there is any craftsmanship in copying someone elses work for the sake of having a cheap knock off that can be sold for big bucks. These guns are not just something to look at. They are examples of true craftmanship in an age where computers where not grinding out thousands of ill fitting pistol pieces. They are historical artifacts as well as investments and not just something to view. I looked that the navy sight that was for sale. Because it was in such good shape, I wondered if it came off of some stolen gun. I don't know, but I have thought that on a number of simular sights that I have seen. Too often I think that these parts are in too good a condition to come off of a junker gun. Then again, if we go back to my first paragraph, this may be the new American way of thinking. Big Norm

03-04-2003, 09:50 PM	#10
Jaime Allan User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, its been about a month since I visited the forum and did not expect to see so many responses. I live in Mooresville NC, the stock car racing capital of the world. Quite a few of my friends work for different race teams. So, I took an original Navy toggle and a standard rear toggle to my neighbor a 21yr old fabricator for a Nascar team. Within two weeks of tinkering on his breaks he completed an almost exact copy. All my friend wanted for his trouble was a case of Hamms. I don't really like the idea of polluting the luger population with replicated parts; however is't part of collecting being able to discern altered from original ie. blueing, matching #'s. The only reason I wanted the Navy toggle was to put on a Martz Luger, which is an adaptation form an original anyway. Thanks for all the interesting input, I guess nobody did know of the source of European replicator. Best regards Jaime

03-04-2003, 10:23 PM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,894 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,289 Times in 426 Posts	Jaime, any chance you can post a picture? --Dwight

03-05-2003, 09:50 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Jaime, Nice that you could find someone already on someone else's payroll to do the job. If he was having to make a living from his hourly labor, I doubt that he would have been able to do it for a case of beer. I used to know a gunsmith who would use UAL's million dollar EDM equiptment to Magnaport barrels. Obviously, he is no longer employed by them. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net